Pity that 'Evidence of earth's age' was closed down, due to someone getting 'too hot under the collar' about things. Thus the subject never really gets properly debated on any forum I've seen so far. The atheistic forums squash it when rational arguments are put forward supporting the case for Discipleship of Christ in an otherwise Godless world. Christian forums tend to squash it when rational debate begins to get weighted behind a sane and rational interpretation of the scriptures rather than the naively simplisic literalism of some fundamentalist religious protagonists. Hence we rarely get a balanced discussion of the real issues, for and against evolution on the one hand and the enduring faith of Christ's church on earth, on the other. . This was my final contribution to the thread that got cur-tailed, (like the dog watches at sea). Here's where things get difficult for some to understand. Many Christians believe that without repentance (an act involving a 'turning around of ones life' and a 'renouncing of sin'), one cannot become a Christian, therefore cannot have been 'saved' by Christ's atonement. I know many 'fundamentalist, bible believing' Christians who are of this opinion, I'm sure you all know of them too. It is a pretty standard belief even among the most liberal of us believers. But what most of them still are unable to grasp is that Christ died for them 'while we were yet still sinners'. None of us whether Christian, Jew or reprobate atheist had repented WHEN Christ 'Died FOR US'. - We repented, if we did, BECAUSE Christ died for us. The atonement brought about for us happened on HIS DEATH, not on our repentance. His death happened, 'while we were yet sinners', long ago, before we ever repented. In fact before we were born. So in a very true sense those Christians who believe unrepentant sinners are not covered by Christ's atonement, and are therefore not 'elect' and therefore not 'saved' by what Christ did through his death, are confirming the notion that nobody can die for someone else's sins and have them forgiven. Supposedly, only by repentance within the heart of an individual can atonement take place between the person and God, therefore there would be no atonement for them, unless they repent. This leads me, at least, to the conclusion that either Christ died and atoned for the whole human race BEFORE they became repentant of sin or we, through our act of repentence secure our own salvation by at last becoming repentant and finally believing in Christ's death on our behalf. The second option seems to me to be unworthy of Him and what he did for the whole of mankind. I just wonder if it might actually be the 'false gospel' we are told of in the scriptures. Paul called it 'another gospel', presumably based upon something that WE have to do, rather than on something Christ has already done. Once, and for all. Responding to the true Gospel is truly a repentant heart toward a merciful God, but surely the grace of God does not DEMAND repentance from sinful mankind, before forgiveness is even on offer from Him? Repentance is a response in gratitude to God's saving Grace, not the price or a condition demanded for obtaining it. .