Jamestown, the first Anglican colony in America

Discussion in 'Navigating Through Church Life' started by anglican74, Aug 20, 2021.

  1. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    This is what their life was like... I am pretty impressed
    thoughts?

    IMG_75092301F46A-1.jpeg
     
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  2. Carolinian

    Carolinian Active Member Anglican

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    I am currently reading Religion in the Development of American Culture 1765-1840 by William Sweet, published in the 1950s. I was surprised to read about how much the Church cared about the moral character of its members. In the case of church discipline, the book covers the Presbyterians, Congregationalists, Baptists, and Methodists, although I suspect things wouldn't be that different for other denominations of the time. One could have their membership revoked (an American term for excommunication?) based on "abusive language, unchristian marriage (sorry progressives), bastardy, dancing, fornicating, horse racing, profanity, heretical sentiments and joining the Methodists." The last two were apparently "distinctly Presbyterian" reasons for membership revocation. Generally, trials were conducted by moral courts. The rise in Church discipline also happened to coincide with the 2nd Great Awakening after the period of religious decline during and slightly after the American Revolution. But I guess we can't follow the positive example of our forefathers because they didn't share a modern, secular morality.
     
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  3. ZachT

    ZachT Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, I don't think you should want to follow that example, or consider it particularly positive. I can't imagine having a healthy relationship with God while living in such a society.
     
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  4. Carolinian

    Carolinian Active Member Anglican

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    Considering the fact that God killed Ananias and Sapphira for lying to the Holy Spirit, and Paul warns us about the consequences of taking communion in a state of gross immorality: In comparison, the Presbyterian standards and punishments of membership revocation seem tame. It's also interesting to consider that the increase in Church Discipline in the early 19th century also coincided with the 2nd Great Awakening (the largest religious revival in American history) after the period of Deism, Atheism, and general irreligiosity of the Revolutionary period. I assume you believe expelling members of a church for sexual immorality would hamper spiritual growth (Paul actually supports having nothing to do with such wayward members even outside of church)? If so, maybe you should reread 1st Corinthians 5 and report back. However, maybe Paul and the leaders of America's largest national religious revival were just wrong and were actually harming their massively growing congregation's relationship with God. Church discipline in the pioneer period was the main civilizing force in the rough backcountry environment of the American frontier. Certainly, the state of the modern church with no church discipline versus awakening churches speaks volumes to the importance of maintaining doctrinal and moral standards.
     
  5. Invictus

    Invictus Well-Known Member

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    Sounds proto-totalitarian to me. I’m glad American society has moved long past that. It does sound like an interesting read, though. It’s important to know where we came from.
     
  6. Carolinian

    Carolinian Active Member Anglican

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    Proto-Totalitarian? :o Attempting to connect awakening Christians with Nazis and Stalinists seems to show a lot about your thinking. I recommend you read Religion in the Development of American Culture 1765 to 1840. By your metric St.Paul and God would be proto-totalitarian? The problem of holding to Liberalism first and Christianity second. The "proto-totalitarianism" of the American Church during the Awakening period lead to the Christianization of the frontier, the end of the period of irreligiously of the revolution, and the greatest revival in American history. In comparison, your ideology of moral libertinism has lead to the total collapse of Western Christianity, the death of many denominations, and the rise of cultural marxism.

    "Ye shall know them by their fruits."
     
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  7. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    If anything, America in 2021 is far more proto-totalitarian, with the omnipotent Government reading our emails, sending us its salaries, injecting us with whatever it wants, teaching our children what it wants… can anyone really say that this is a free society? No give me a wholesome christian culture instead
     
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  8. Invictus

    Invictus Well-Known Member

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    Exaggerate much? I think you need to lighten up a bit. We’re only commenting on your description of the book’s description of some localized denominational practices at the time that some of us find excessively paternalistic. You don’t think banning dancing for all citizens is going a bit too far? Or that suspicions of impropriety would have entailed citizens spying on one another, and engaging in denunciation? (That is basically how the Soviet surveillance apparatus worked, in a nutshell.) The Second Great Awakening was hardly a rebirth of traditional orthodoxy. A lot of strange things came out of that, as is often the case with “revivals” (one of many reasons I avoid them). It’s not at all clear that the results were a net gain from the prior status quo.
     
  9. Invictus

    Invictus Well-Known Member

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    One can have “wholesome Christian culture” - whatever that may mean here - without a coercive state apparatus imposing it on everyone. Our children don’t get taught anything that our state- or local-level elected officials didn’t consent to. If some Christians are nonetheless disaffected by these things, then they need to work harder and do a better job convincing people that what they’re proposing is better. The resources to do that are certainly there.