Islam

Discussion in 'Non-Anglican Discussion' started by Botolph, Nov 9, 2016.

  1. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    http://blog.markdurie.com/2016/11/violent-protests-in-indonesia-blow-ill.html

    Mark Drurie is an Anglican Clergyman and author addressing a number of the issues in the interfaith area. I have concluded that he does not believe that it is reasonable to expect to have a harmonious environment in which Islam is anything other than a minority view.

    I believe some of what he says, though as always I hope for better of my brothers and sisters in humanity.

    I would be interested in what others think. There is a RC parish in (Alice Springs?) Australia where they share a worship space. I don't know how that works.

    I guess that one of the problems is that we have history. But I think that is only one of the problems. I think that this is becoming a bigger issue in many western countries, but I would also be interested to hear from those who perhaps have more face to face experience.
     
  2. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    The two most commonly held beliefs about Islam are either it's a bloodthirsty tyrannical faith or its a faith full of peace-lovers. Both are extreme views and neither is correct
     
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  3. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    Or conversely, and perhaps more precisely, both are correct, yet neither is a complete description of Islam. I am very much aware in discussion the term Islam, may be used to describe the religious movement seeking to embrace and uphold, or the political/militaristic movement seeking to dominate and destroy. More than once in discussion I have noticed that we move from one to the other, as if the discussion topic had not changed.

    In a world of much uncertainty, the extremes of any fundamentalism offer an unquestioned certainty, and I am sure that is part of the attraction. Here it is, do think about it, this is it, follow this and you will be right. The problem with such certainty is that it also has the possibility to be wrong. Life and faith are a journey, not a destination, searching, following, finding, are important. Any ism that ends up saying that the ends justifies the means fails the integrity test, and is not worthy of God.
     
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  4. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    And unfortunately we as a race have learned nothing from history except how to be more effective in self destruction. For centuries, indeed millennia, we have massacred one another in the name of religion, my own beloved wee country included. Yet the God in whose name the killing is done balks at the carnage. Islam means surrender to Gods will and Muslim means one who surrenders. Is it surrender to the will of God when women and girls are traded as concubines and children slaughtered and men murdered or mutilated? Were Christians surrendering to the will of God when they slaughtered Muslims and eastern Christians a millennium ago in Jesus' homeland?
     
  5. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    I quote like a post I saw on FB a while back that said something like If you religion is telling you to kill someone, then you need a new religion!

    We (our religious traditions) have all done awful things for which we should repent and ensure that we leave this world a better place.
     
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  6. Ide

    Ide Active Member

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    I think that it is vital to keep channels of interfaith dialogue open where it is fruitful, peaceful and builds mutual understanding between faiths. However, I've seen some interfaith meetings which completely gloss over the on-going problems and differences between religions. I don't find this helpful or constructive. I do not believe that all religions are equal. Aztec religions of human sacrifice or Santeria witchcraft are not as morally equal to the Christian gospel, for example.

    I recall years ago attending a conference in which two young women of the Baha'i faith became extremely upset when the Islamic speaker was trotting out the slogan "Islam is a religion of peace... killing non-Muslims isn't real Islam... " etc to which they objected as their relatives had been imprisoned or executed in Iran. They directly confronted the man speaking and no one knew how to handle the situation, so it was a chance to bring some true healing to both groups but because the organizers and speaker weren't honest in their approach it was a lost opportunity to go beyond platitudes.

    All religions have problems and bad adherents- that's because all humans are sinners. Some religions are worse than others, but we shouldn't pretend that the problems don't exist. It's not hating Muslims to bring up problems with the faith, just as it's not hating Christians to address problems in our own churches. Any interfaith exchange has to be open and honest; otherwise what's the point?
     
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  7. Ide

    Ide Active Member

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    I would also add that I do not agree that Christians and Muslims worship the same God. It's very clear that our God- the Father, Holy Spirit & Son- and Allah are not the same. It's so oft repeated these days that no one seems to reject it or dispute it.
     
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  8. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    Whilst at one level I accept the point you make, I don't find it 100% persuasive. The Muslim say 'there is One God' and the Christian and the Jews says 'The Lord our God the Lord is One'. As monotheistic traditions of Semitic origins it is likely that there is a core understanding that makes it possible to say that God is One, for God is God. Mohammed was not introducing a new God, but was establishing a new political unity in God, and in no way disavowed the God of the Hebrews and the Christians, though did argue that we had all misunderstood and wandered off the pathway.

    I do think it is valid to say that we have a significantly different understanding of God, and of what the life of a follower of God looks like.
     
  9. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    We too believe that God is one. He is three persons in one God. Once more I reiterate that Allah is simply the Arabic word for God as Gott is in German, Dieu in French and Dios in Spanish. Arabic Chritians pray to Allah. However, Jesus instructed us to love our neighbour and while that does include people of other faiths, this should be the beginning and end of "ecumenism ". There's only one true Catholic and apostolic faith and on this there must be no compromise, therefore theological discussion with other faiths is of know worth unless it is to evangelise
     
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