Good News from Wales

Discussion in 'Anglican and Christian News' started by seagull, Sep 12, 2013.

  1. seagull

    seagull Active Member

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    The BBC News reports that "women bishops will be allowed into the Church in Wales following a landmark yes vote......there were huge cheers from the hall when the result was announced.....the Episcopal Church of Scotland and the Church of Ireland have (also) cleared the way for women bishops."

    The Celts are showing their Anglo-Saxon neighbours the way ahead!
     
  2. historyb

    historyb Active Member

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    More Churches walking away from Christ, sad
     
  3. The Hackney Hub

    The Hackney Hub Well-Known Member

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    Calling this "good news" is silly. More of the Anglican Communion departing from the teaching of the Scripture, nothing to celebrate.
     
  4. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

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    I attend a small parish. one of the parishioners is a woman who is extremely traditional. she wears a head covering, prays silently during the passing of the peace (aka mid-communion happy hour), and is always conspicuously missing when the lady priest is scheduled. Recently, we've been assigned a deaconness who administers the wine in the eucharist. She will receive the host but will quietly get up prior the deaconness giving her the cup. She never makes a fuss, never threatens,to leave, never threatens to stop tithing. She simply stands stedfast in her principles and refuses to give up. God bless her. I admire her tenacity.
     
  5. seagull

    seagull Active Member

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    But our sisters and brothers in Wales are celebrating.
     
  6. seagull

    seagull Active Member

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    Yes, I gather people like that might also exist in the CofE. And of course they have that choice. We are a tolerant church. We also tolerate creationists, for example. A broad church.
     
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  7. seagull

    seagull Active Member

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    I do hope that you're not implying that the CofE walked away from Christ when it appointed women priests. That would surely be a derogatory comment.
     
  8. seagull

    seagull Active Member

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    That is not the view of the Most Reverend Barry Morgan, Archbishop of Wales. He was interviewed on BBC Radio Woman's Hour this morning and said that he was "looking forward enormously to the appointment of a woman bishop." I do hope that you are not going to accuse such a distinguished theologian and churchman of "walking away from God".

    Incidentally, on the same programme I heard that we have already had an English woman bishop: Penny Jamieson, the first ever female diocesan Bishop (of Dunedin, NZ, 1989-2004) was born and educated in England.
     
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  9. Ogygopsis

    Ogygopsis Active Member

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    This.
    We are tolerant as Anglicans worldwide as part of the church universal. There are no claims to exclusivity, no claims to non-inclusiveness in Christ's teaching. And we must always be mindful that God is the judge, not humans. Broad church means rather uncomfortably wide sometimes for some people. I know that God has stretched me to understand the barriers within myself, and grow further with Christ.
     
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  10. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Terrible news.

    This means that the the Welsh episcopacy in the long run will become erased and invalid. Very sad news indeed. The historic Welsh bishops did not put their lives in danger, and give their lives to the Church, for their successors to sell the Church out to feminist liberals who would erase said episcopacy and leave the Church without pastors or a hierarchy.
     
  11. Ogygopsis

    Ogygopsis Active Member

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    Huh? ?feminist liberals? I don't think you can say that about Wales. They are broad church, in the middle, neither liberal nor conservative. Middle. Though if your perspective is extreme on the conservative end, you might misperceive.
     
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  12. historyb

    historyb Active Member

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    Board Church will kill Anglicanism eventually. Christianity is not broad but very exclusive, the broad way leads to perdition.

    Go in through the narrow gate, because the gate to hell is wide and the road that leads to it is easy, and there are many who travel it.

    Matt 7:13
     
  13. Alcibiades

    Alcibiades Member

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    Yes, for millenia in the West it has been the easiest thing to simply dismiss women and their opinions as so much irrelevance and fluff. Broadest way there was in fact, the inferiority of women was a pervasive cultural fact that permeated every level of society.

    Takes courage I'm sure to humbly admit an error like the rank patriarchalism of western society. Couldn't be easier though, to maintain these parochial attitudes and pretend that it somehow isn't a matter of justice. That is the easy way because it still refuses to take women and their thought seriously. It's misogyny, pure and simple to take a high-handed attitude without engaging with feminist insights and critiques of power structures in religion and wider society.

    I am willing to rescind my comments if any opponent can show any substantive knowledge of feminist thought which they disagree with. I should make it clear this is not a matter of what scripture says or not, I have no interest in that; this is about demonstrating some ability to even comprehend other opinions and what it is you're disagreeing with.

    I'm aware this post is a little scathing in tone, but my passions are somewhat roused by the tone and intellectual level of this conversation, which is, too put it at its most flattering, deeply unsophisticated and rather unpleasant to see.
     
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  14. historyb

    historyb Active Member

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    Prove that it is in Scripture and Tradition then you shall have an argument otherwise it is just hot air. No one is dismissing women, a nice liberal trick to pull out to try and shut up someone. In fact women have roles in the Church but not as Priest
     
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  15. Alcibiades

    Alcibiades Member

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    I think you just ignored everything I just said.

    You seem to be under some sort of misapprehension; I do not speak as a Christian, liberal is not a dirty word to me (although I do, I must admit, like to flatter myself with the idea that it is something of a misapplication; I would consider myself much more in sympathy with Radical thought, or perhaps postliberalism, I don't know, but this is a tangent). I am not trying to trick you, I want to know if you actually can demonstrate any knowledge of what it is you're opposing.

    I couldn't care less for the moment if all scripture and tradition was utterly on your side. I am curious to find out if you actually understand anything of feminism and its place within the continuum of contextual theory.

    And I'm still waiting for the evidence that you do.
     
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  16. historyb

    historyb Active Member

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    I really could care less what you want. Either the position can be shown from Scripture and Tradition or not it is that simple
     
  17. Ogygopsis

    Ogygopsis Active Member

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    Some useful verses on inclusiveness of Christianity:

    There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:28

    Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? Acts 10:47

    And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions. Even on the male and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit. Joel 2:28/9

    For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptised into one body. 1 Cor 12:12

    By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. 1 John 4:2

    It would be good to be cautious, those of you who are leaders in churches about this and other things:

    Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. James 3:1
     
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  18. The Hackney Hub

    The Hackney Hub Well-Known Member

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    That's rather a simple one. None of the above passages deal with the requirements of ordination. Where the Bible specifically deals with church leadership, it is specified that these leaders (presbyter-bishops and deacons) are to be men.
     
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  19. historyb

    historyb Active Member

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    None of those are the liberal idea of inclusiveness. Try this one:

    Jesus answered him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one goes to the Father except by me.
    John 14:6

    Salvation is to be found through him alone; in all the world there is no one else whom God has given who can save us.”
    Acts 4:12

    Christianity is very exclusive, only one way to Salvation not many. Liberals pervert the Gospel
     
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  20. Ogygopsis

    Ogygopsis Active Member

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    requirements for ordination are set by the church. Gender is not part of the consideration. So thanks for clarifying.
     
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