Gafcon Australia Moves Ahead

Discussion in 'Anglican and Christian News' started by Ananias, Jul 20, 2021.

  1. Shane R

    Shane R Well-Known Member

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    I suspect 'worshipping' is a code word for Average Sunday Attendance. And that statistic is abysmal in most of the West.

    For instance, one common metric for measuring church involvement used by US pollsters is monthly attendance. That is to say, if you attend a worship service once a month you are more involved than the average church member. Even that rather low bar is routinely met by only about 30% of the members of any given mainline church.
     
  2. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    I think that is true. I imagine if you care enough to leave, then you will care enough to attend.
     
  3. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I’ve seen this stated and believe it’s greatly overblown. In Africa you’re not dealing with a Western style t-shirt flip-flops evangelical. You have someone who wears a cassock everywhere he goes, and all clerics in the church wear a biretta. The priests kneel before the bishops, and the Church habitually excommunicates and exercises the full boot of the Church, to maintain orthodoxy and discipline. Also while some older priests still have some of those revivalist tendencies, I see more high church young clergy (yes even beyond the ubiquitous cassocks and birettas) interested in organ and the ceremonial.

    Having done several mission trips to Africa I can say that Westerners generally don’t understand the African Anglican church. As a high traditionalist myself, I say we would be so lucky if they came to more prominence. These are the peak Anglicans in the world today, peak Christians really. Perhaps rough around some edges, but who isn’t? They are more complete, overall, while the Whites love to major in the minors, while they sell out the farm.

    That being said, I also don’t see national boundaries being erased. It’s true there are 20 million of them over there, while there are 120k here in ACNA. But we don’t see the Africans swamping and dwarfing the ACNA. They’re there, and we’re here. If anything, it is actually our primate that currently runs Gafcon itself and thus in fact oversees the African churches!

    I really don’t feel any African muscle, over here. Sometimes I actually wish I would! I wish they’d send millions of missionaries here, but they don’t. So it’s up to us.
     
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  4. Ananias

    Ananias Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I think persecution has strengthened African Christians; as persecution ramps here in the US -- and don't think for one second that it won't -- perhaps the same spirit will come back to us.

    African Christians are often chided by Westerners as being overly "charismatic" and "Pentecostal" in their worship. I'm not sure why these are, a priori, bad things, by the way. I am not a cessationist and I believe in the action of the Holy Spirit upon believers. I do find a lot of the "speaking in tongues" and "laying on of hands" healing stuff to be grandstanding nonsense about 99% of the time, but I must allow for the possibility of such things. A vibrant, joyous worship of God in dance and song is certainly no bad thing, however indecorous it might seem to us of a more sedate persuasion. I'd rather have a worship service full of people who regard the event with joy and anticipation rather than boredom and a sense of obligation.

    The African Christian spirit seems to be so much more bountiful than that in the west. It bubbles over. It has a striving, energetic spirit that seems to have departed from much of the western nations. Yes, African Christianity does have its problems, as all Christian churches do. But those problems pale in comparison to the cancer currently eating away at the churches in the west.

    But all is not lost here in the west. I think ACNA and the GAFCON missions in Europe and the UK will grow. Slowly, but they will grow. The "post Christian" west is still a fertile mission field; perhaps the next generations will be more open to God's message. I thank God daily for bringing me into this church as it seems to me like the beginning of something both powerful and wonderful. To God be all the praise!
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  5. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    If we're talking about African Christianity as a whole, that indeed is influenced by the Western pentecostal movement of the 90s and 2000s. But if we're talking about Anglicans in particular, it's a different story. When I was over there, they conveyed a sense of aggression toward the Pentecostal evangelical churches down the street.

    While Anglican churches may be certainly livelier than is usual in the West; and the service lasts three hours; nevertheless I saw nothing equivalent to a Western pentecostal or evangelical format. You don't have guys in a shirt on a stage. I have never seen congregations engage in tongues; that's understood as something done by those dirty evangelicals across the street. This is what I mean when saying that Westerners don't really have categories for how to interpret African Christianity, especially the liturgical churches. It's true, they will be a lot livelier, with more sounds, more clapping; the preaching will put the fear of God in you; there is part organ and part band sometimes. But the church looks like this:

    196590763_5889657144408554_8466658746458103863_n.jpg

    The Knights of St. Christopher, their version of the Knights of Columbus:

    70259655_3515251185155550_6689561122871181312_n.jpg
     
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  6. Ananias

    Ananias Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I am thankful beyond measure to hear that, because I believe that central Africa is -- not will be, but already is -- the functional center of the Anglican church in the world. That fact will only grow in scale and importance as the 21st century continues to unfold.
     
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  7. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Southeast Asia is becoming another Anglican center, thanks to the Diocese of Singapore (more like the Anglican empire of Singapore): they've been reported to spend around $1mil USD annually on a vast church planting effort across all of Southeast Asia: in Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos. In 10-20 years these will be countries with a heavy Anglican presence.

    China also, the reports behind the iron curtain say there are around 100 million Christians in China alone. It is unknown how they break down by denominations, but the RCC recently sold out its people to the Chinese Communist Party, a huge blow to Rome's credibility and presence among the Chinese Christians. But within my own parish I've had a family travel on a mission trip to China two years ago (of course very secretly, almost as a spy mission). So I wouldn't be surprised if there were 5-10 million Anglicans coming from China alone. God is good.
     
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  8. Ananias

    Ananias Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Praise God! May the missionaries have a fruitful and safe journey. May God bless every one of them.
     
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  9. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    If the choice is between a tongue-talking charismatic who's 'on fire for God' & actively involved in spreading the Gospel,
    or a traditionalist, tepid pew-warmer who does nothing to fulfill the Great Commission,
    which one will God be apt to work through?

    I'm sure that God would be delighted to reach the lost through the traditionalist, but what if every time He calls, He gets a "busy signal"?

    ...I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
    And he said, Go, and tell this people
    ... (Isaiah 6:8,9).

    edit: Those African Anglicans all decked out in white clothing are a sight to behold! They're preparing for their robes of eternal righteousness! :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
  10. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    If we look at history, all of those movements, every single one of those people, eventually fell into apostasy and fell away. In the 1600s they nearly destroyed the English society. In the 1700s they (the methodists) schismed from the church and compromised on many doctrines for the sake of being “on fire”. On and on into the 1800s and 1900s, when today they buy themselves private airplanes, fleece the flock, and preach the heresies of the prosperity gospel. These are very dangerous people, who never last more than 1-2 generations before they destroy themselves and all those around them. The Church, through its thousands of years of existence, could have never survived under that mindset.

    There is a recent book, entitled “The Patient Ferment of the Early Church” which summarizes how the Fathers were able to hold on to faith despite persecutions, and grow the Church so permanently and irrevocably. It was not through running around crazy, and jumping up and down like a monkey on the stage, believe me. These were serious, patient, deep Christians, and that’s what we need to be. Patient ferment, deep formation, serious and irrevocable.
     
  11. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
    1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
    1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
    1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.