Fascinating anti-Presbyterian discussion on Reddit /r/reformed

Discussion in 'Navigating Through Church Life' started by anglican74, Apr 26, 2020.

  1. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    https://www.reddit.com/r/Reformed/comments/g7tccb/is_the_trap_of_complacency_in_reformed_churches/

    Is the trap of complacency in Reformed churches cultural or rooted in our failure to understand our theology?
    I truly appreciate everyone's sensitivity and well thought out arguments on this sub even with disagreement. I'm going to throw out what I see as a massive problem in the many reformed, I'll say Presbyterian PCA, since that's what I know churches. That's the lack of fruits to serve out the both the great commission and just fundamentally, service to our neighbors, friends, and other members. I've been in a southern PCA church for 30 years. Have served as a Deacon, led worship, run finances. Truly apart from preaching, I think I have done it all. But, the truth is, we are a very self focused community. What really spurred this was a Paul David Tripp comment that we act as Functional Atheists. I start running down the list of people I have known in the church for years and quite a few, even that have served as elders and deacons, have little to show for a life transformed by Christ. We have launched ministries and many falter due to verbal support from leadership, but lack their physical commitment. I have seen this in other southern PCA Churches as well. Now, we have always had great Biblically based teaching and our officer training was an intense year long deep dive into Theology, so the basis was there, but something was clearly wrong.


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    and the top reply is no less fascinating:
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    It’s really frustrating sometimes to see stuff like this because more than any other place, I see Reformed use the “you will know them by their fruits” justification against so many, while having a huge blind spot regarding our own tradition and people. One would legitimately think that with the proper theological framework, the love and gratitude of the Christian toward God would be immediate and be overflowing as good works... but it just isn’t many times.

    There’s a combination of things at work though I think it’s mostly from how Reformed people have historically interacted with our theology



    I tend to agree. In my own experience, folks who have been strongly immersed in Reformed theology have become inert, passive-aggressive, proud and yet rather secular.
     
  2. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Active Member

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    Reformed theology is near if not heretical to me. Does not shock me. My question is does some of what they do get seen though. I don't talk about one of the biggest things I do for people. I grow a huge garden and give away some to those I know in need. I don't talk about it or advertise it and for the most part outside of immediate friends or family no one knows it. I do it because as a Christian we are supposed to help those in need. I wonder if some of that is going on that no one sees.
     
  3. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Good point. How much 'love walk' is happening among our brethren that we don't see and are not privy to?
    Mat 6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
    Mat 6:4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

    Maybe a lot of folks are just quietly doing good without letting on.

    On the other hand, I would say that serving alone won't win the lost; we are called to evangelize all peoples and let everyone hear the Gospel of Christ, and I think this latter area is where the church is most lacking. We can't be doing one (either one!) without the other, if we hope to follow in the footsteps of our Master.
     
  4. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Let not your right hand know what your left is doing. But that does not mean they can ignore each other being idle in almsgiving. :hmm:
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  5. Jeffg

    Jeffg Active Member

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    On the other hand, I would say that serving alone won't win the lost; we are called to evangelize all peoples and let everyone hear the Gospel of Christ, and I think this latter area is where the church is most lacking. We can't be doing one (either one!) without the other, if we hope to follow in the footsteps of our Master.[/QUOTE]

    I quite agree with this. Yes, it is important to do all the outward physical things we should do, feed the starving, clothe those who need it, leading by example and love....but what about the Great Commission ?? I think many who love to be of service to those in need are scared to say "Let me talk to you about Jesus Christ, what He did for us...?" Isn't evangelizing the ultimate act of love and service to our fellow man ?
     
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  6. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    If we found out where we could get a new car absolutely free, or discovered how to get a bunch of grant money given to us just for the asking, after we went ahead and received ours we'd be totally excited to tell all our acquaintances how they can get theirs, too. Yet we hesitate to tell anyone the wonderful things God has done for us and given to us... let alone tell them that God wants to give them eternal life in the most joyful environment imaginable, all expenses paid.
     
  7. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    2 Kings Chapter 7 is a perfect parable of the way in which we, as begging lepers ourselves, should relate the riches of the gospel to others. It also amply illustrates the sceptical attitude of unbelieving prisoners of fear when informed of the generosity of God to those under siege by the devil, and the dangers of actively opposing God's servants as they preach his forgivness and generocity to others.
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