Do you like the use of the Latin language in churches?

Discussion in 'Questions?' started by Silvan, Jul 18, 2021.

?

Do you like the use of the Latin language in churches?

  1. yes

    7 vote(s)
    36.8%
  2. no

    5 vote(s)
    26.3%
  3. it all depends

    7 vote(s)
    36.8%
  1. Silvan

    Silvan Active Member

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    Do you like the use of the Latin language in churches?
     
  2. Silvan

    Silvan Active Member

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    Btw: This is a short and clearcut poll.
    There may be other threads dealing with Latin, but certainly no poll.
    So I hope that is poll has the right to exist.
     
  3. Silvan

    Silvan Active Member

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    So far:

    One vote for: Yes.
    My vote
     
  4. Silvan

    Silvan Active Member

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    Credo in Unum Deum ....
     
  5. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    We already have Latin, Greek, and Hebrew in the 1662 Prayerbook. The psalms are entitled with their Latin vulgate title; the Hebrew “amen”, etc.

    My experience with lengthy or even exclusive Latin in churches is that it’s a form of play-acting. And it’s not a particularly manly form of play-acting either:

    1AAFEA9B-E7E3-4102-988C-3A651D74115E.jpeg
     
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  6. Silvan

    Silvan Active Member

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  7. Silvan

    Silvan Active Member

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    THIS IS LATIN! :)
     
  8. Silvan

    Silvan Active Member

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    Carmina Burana again.
     
  9. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    What about that has anything to do with Latin, though? It’s mostly just pure music than anything else; the language isn’t even very legible. Here is epic choral music in English:

     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
  10. Silvan

    Silvan Active Member

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    All of it has to do a lot with Latin.
    Is CARMINA BURANA un-known to you?
     
  11. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I know Carmina Burana very well, and have listened to it countless times. What you like about it is the music. The words are nearly indistinguishable. Here is Carmina Burana without the lyrics. Sounds 95% the same:
    https://youtu.be/qcIjs1Ghk6s

    you may be confusing choral/symphonic/orchestral music with music in the Latin language, when they’re not the same. There are plenty of boring and non-impressive songs set to Latin lyrics. I love Latin and can read Classical Latin myself, but in the context of symphonic music the language fades into the background and becomes just another instrument.

    I already sent Tallis, just as impressive as Carl Orff, and the English there too is nearly-indistinguishable; it might as well be russian. The language in such pieces does not matter. Voice becomes just another instrument.

    Here is Handel’s Messiah, in English, and as epic as anything Carl Orff had written:
     
  12. Silvan

    Silvan Active Member

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    I like both the music and the words very much.
     
  13. Silvan

    Silvan Active Member

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    O fortuna!

    O Fortuna
    Velut luna
    Statu variabilis
    Semper crescis
    Aut decrescis
    Vita detestabilis
    Nunc obdurat
    Et tunc curat
    Ludo mentis aciem,
    Egestatem,
    Potestatem
    Dissolvit ut glaciem.




    I like both very much! :)
     
  14. ZachT

    ZachT Well-Known Member

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    I think services should be in the language you will best understand in. I think there are very few people left on Earth who understand Latin better than any other language, so on that basis I would say almost all Latin services are just an exercise in ego and pride. Paul warns us against attending Church to show off, so I think most of the time the people that attend a latin service are doing it for very spiritually destructive reasons.
     
  15. Silvan

    Silvan Active Member

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    To this I say:

    You can do both.
    Have your mother language and an other one.
    Using Latin in church does not mean you cannot use English or German as well.
     
  16. Silvan

    Silvan Active Member

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    Latin can be a common bond!

    I remember an Anglican church service in Kent - in English
    and a Catholic church service in Perm, Russia, in Russian.

    And when the Credo then and there was sung in Latin, I was moved to tears.
    Latin is like the Esperanto of the Catholic Church - and maybe also of the Anglican Church.
     
  17. ZachT

    ZachT Well-Known Member

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    As Stalwart said, when we talk about Latin in church services, we aren't talking about music. Latin vocals/chorals in music are just another instrument, like adding an additional string. I don't think it's particularly useful to ask the question "Do you like the use of Latin lyrics in music". The answer to that question is always going to be "if it sounds good".

    If you're using Latin to deliver a substantive part of the liturgy that you expect the parishioners/congregants to understand, receive and use to come closer to God or obey his law, then that is, most of the time, spiritually destructive. It's being done for the wrong reasons. Those people are going to church to Sin.
     
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  18. Silvan

    Silvan Active Member

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    I have been talking about the CREDO in Latin now - sung by a very mixed and international community.
    In Kent in England and in Perm in Russia.
    So Latin was a neutral language - and well known to all.
    Maybe somebody who was not there will never be able to understand it.

    Good night for now!
     
  19. Silvan

    Silvan Active Member

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    Latin is not just any language.
    It is a common bond for Europeans.
    I am not speaking of the EU now.
    Europeans in that sense where England is also a part of Europe.
    Lest some forget.
     
  20. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    didn't Bach write some of the most impressive church music? In german if memory serves me correctly, and so inspiring that people have called Bach's music "the fifth gospel" ...