Deuterocanonical Books

Discussion in 'Faith, Devotion & Formation' started by bwallac2335, Nov 13, 2019.

  1. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Well-Known Member

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    So I mentioned to my Baptist non denominational gf that I bought and Orthodox Study Bible and it had the Deuterocanonical Books in it and she was very concerned and was not happy about the books. Anyone had any experience with this and how did you talk to them about it.
     
  2. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Active Member

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    Why not quote your girl friend article VI

    "And the other Books (as Hierome saith) the Church doth read for example of life and instruction of manners; but yet doth it not apply them to establish any doctrine; such are these following:"

    And then follows a list of the Deuterocanonical books.
     
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  3. dariakus

    dariakus New Member

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    Why do you have to talk to them about it? If they’re unhappy you bought a book, that seems like a squarely “them” problem. Just let them rant and rave and you just smile and nod and get on with it :)
     
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  4. Shane R

    Shane R Well-Known Member

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    At my last clericus, a contingent from Dallas Theological Seminary came down one day as observers. They were rude, standoffish, cliqueish, and dumb. In Evening Prayer, the reading was from Ecclesiasticus (sometimes denoted 'Sirach') and one mumbled, Ecclesiastes only has 12 chapters. Attention to detail buddy; and get an education in the majority tradition of the church.
     
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  5. Shane R

    Shane R Well-Known Member

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    My Dad, a Church of Christ preacher, always disparaged the other books as 'Jewish fables.' Hey, that's the same argument liberal theologians make about the Pentateuch. I'm sure he'd chafe at hearing that. We haven't discussed it in some time.

    Biblical Innerantists cannot accept the Deuterocanon because there are portions that are not historically factual. The most obvious example is Judith, which is a composite story combining elements of Ruth and Esther and some ideas of what a virtuous Jewish woman ought to be at the time of its composition.
     
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  6. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Well-Known Member

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    I actually told her that. She is just leery of them really. She is afraid they will influence me badly or something.
     
  7. Religious Fanatic

    Religious Fanatic Well-Known Member

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    I enjoy studying them and learning more about their history. People either push them as suppressed documents the 'evil' church intentionally hid to keep people in the dark (skeptics) or soul-destroying heresies that are of the devil (protestants). Neither is true.
     
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  8. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Active Member

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    Books will only influence you if let them. Hey I've read lots of books on Christianity and theology and it hasn't affected me.:D
     
  9. Shane R

    Shane R Well-Known Member

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    My bishop teaches the Apocrypha course at our seminary. Here's his introductory lecture:
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
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  10. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    I had read the "Lost Books of the Bible" some years ago. Sort of interesting, but nothing of great value. It's literature.

    Tell your girlfriend that you appreciate her concern, and since you already spent the money on the item would she mind terribly if you kept it with the understanding that the Deuterocanon is only for 'light reading' and historical perspective, not for doctrine? Reassure her that you have no interest in converting to a group that takes those books more seriously. If necessary, offer to mark those books with a bold marker as "HETERODOX" or even "FICTION."

    I bet she would have an even bigger issue with the Harry Potter series!
     
  11. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    The LXX (Septuagint) was translated into Greek some time before Jesus. For a lot of Jews these were the scriptures they new and used, because Greek was widely spoken and the Jews were spread well beyond Palestine. The LXX contained the Deuterocanonical texts. and were most probably the Scriptures used by Jesus, and certainly were the scriptures used by the writers of the New Testament. The Masoretic Canon was resolved in the Christian era, partly in response to the Church to ensure than Christian writings did not get included in the canon. The Masoretic Canon is essentially all Hebrew, and does not contain the Deuterocanonical texts.

    In the time of the reformation various approaches were taken in resolving their place in our around the Canon. There were those who wanted the out, and those who wanted them in, and the uniquely Anglican position of recognising them but refusing to allow their use to establish that which must be believed.

    The Deuterocanicals were included in the KJV, and indeed Nicholas Rigby was part of the team involved in the new translation.
     
  12. Fr. Brench

    Fr. Brench Active Member Anglican

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    I've got a number of people in my sphere of ministry who are extremely wary of the deuterocanonical books, and my diocese in general is pretty resistant to the use of those books too. Perhaps the simplest way I've come to explain their use in the Anglican tradition (with Article 6 in mind, already cited above) is to say they're second-tier Scripture. We read them for instruction and edification, but not for establishment of doctrine. In other words, they're great preaching material but not-so-great catechetical material.

    Also ended up writing and recording a number of approaches to introducing these writings to people, trying to figure out the most helpful way to do so:

    https://leorningcniht.wordpress.com/2019/04/30/introduction-to-the-ecclesiastical-books/
     
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  13. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Well-Known Member

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    I have yet to read them but will one day. I am loathe to change up my Scripture reading to include them and I am back logged on books to read.
     
  14. Fr. Brench

    Fr. Brench Active Member Anglican

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    Don't feel rushed; even if one were to assert the idea that the Ecclesiastical Books are equal to the Hebrew Old Testament, you still need to know the OT to understand them better. So stick with your plan/lectionary for now, and let the "additional books" get added in as time allows and lectionary dictates :)

    EDIT: just realized I'm interacting with you both here and on Facebook... hope I'm not repeating myself too much!
     
  15. Jeffg

    Jeffg Active Member

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    We read them for instruction and edification, but not for establishment of doctrine. In other words, they're great preaching material but not-so-great catechetical material.

    :
    I occasionally attend an Old Catholic Church when I can and when I was there a couple of Sundays ago, the Priest did a really good job of preaching a homily/Sermon around the Book of Macabees which some Protestants consider either Apocryphal or Deutrocononictical.
     
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  16. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I figured I might would run across the same people as there as here.
     
  17. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Well-Known Member

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    My readings are Old Testament at night with my girlfriend and New Testament in the morning spaced in with other things I am reading. I have to stop buying books for a few months to catch up and then I might could fit them in somewhere in my reading schedule.
     
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  18. Fr. Brench

    Fr. Brench Active Member Anglican

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    Eventually you can switch over to a prayer book lectionary, and that'll integrate your reading of Scripture into union with the Church and include the most relevant writings of the ecclesiastical books.

    That aside, big applause for reading Scripture with your gf/fiance, it's a truly unbeatable spiritual discipline, working wonders for the health of a relationship. My wife, before we married, also helped me read the Bible with her (albeit mostly online from a distance) and it did me a world of good. May God do so and more for you two!
     
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  19. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Well-Known Member

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    Yep we are long distance so it is over a video chat most nights. I am going to buy the 2019 BCP soon hopefully. The budget is a bit busted this month.
     
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  20. Liturgyworks

    Liturgyworks Well-Known Member Anglican

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    It is more true however in the case of the so-called Gnostic “gospels.” I dove into Gnostic apocrypha with great enthusiasm, thrilled about the prospect of reading new stories about the life of our Lord, only to recoil in horror when I found what these books, and the people who in ancient times wrote them, actually believed.

    I expect @Stalwart who like me is a fan of the Panarion of St. Epiphanius of Salamis likewise reacted adversely to these works.