Covid 19 and Article XXX

Discussion in 'Theology and Doctrine' started by Botolph, Mar 14, 2020.

  1. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    This morning at the Holy Communion a letter was read from the Bishop advising the response to the Covid 19 Pandemic. As I don't have a copy, I can't post it here, and it is not available on the Diocesan Website.

    There were by my distinct recollection three points:
    1. No touching during the greeting of the Peace.
    2. Eucharistic ministers to use alcohol based hand sanitiser before touching Eucharist vessels.
    3. Communion only to be offer in one kind - that is the chalice to be withheld from the people.
    Obviously 1 and 2 are reasonably understandable. 3, of course while still understandable, does seem to be at odds with Article XXX.

    I am interested to know if this response is common in the Communion, and amongst Anglicans more generally?
     
  2. Symphorian

    Symphorian Well-Known Member

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  3. Fr. Brench

    Fr. Brench Active Member Anglican

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    I've seen a few churches and diocese issue similar guidelines, and I'm not sure I could obey that, to the point of defying Article 30. At most I'd encourage people to abstain from the wine to reduce the risk, but I have a hard time seeing myself actually denying it to anyone, much less celebrating Holy Communion with only bread in the first place.
     
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  4. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Active Member

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    Can it even be licit if both kinds are at least available.
     
  5. Scottish Knight

    Scottish Knight Well-Known Member

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    How about using the individual cups until the pandemic is over? Surely that reduces the risk while still allowing both kinds
     
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  6. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Active Member

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    Why not just soak the bread/wafer in the wine before hand and then just distribute the individual pieces at the eucharist. I'm sure a few grams maybe microgrames of wine is just as efficacious as the regular amount.
     
  7. Fr. Brench

    Fr. Brench Active Member Anglican

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    That's a good idea. Don't Eastern clerics do something like that, too?
     
  8. Magistos

    Magistos Active Member Anglican

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    That's exactly what they do. The communicant comes up to the priest, there are altar servers on either side with a linen napkin (more the size of a towel, but it's a napkin). The priest has a spoon that they use to dip the bread into the wine. The communicant squats slightly (if possible for them - the priest is also up on steps while the communicant is on the main level) and tilts their head back. The priest then turns the spoon over placing the host onto the tongue. The servers have the napkin under the communicant's chin to catch the bread/wine if there is an accident.

    The key is that spoon has to be kept clean. People forget and lick it, touch it, babies close their mouths, etc....

    Source - wife is Byzantine Catholic. I attend her church as well my own, and always get a blessing from the priest.
     
  9. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Our parish offers the option of intinction; the chalice bearer takes the host, dips it into the cup, and places it on the communicant's tongue. No spoon is used.

    If one were to be infected with a virus from participation in the cup, it seems most likely to be from the metal surface. The alcohol content of the wine should kill any viruses. Intinction by the above method should be about as safe as taking the bread only.

    It does not seem right to cease serving the cup, but reception thereof has always been and should continue to be optional. As our rector stressed yesterday, receiving either one is of the same effect as receiving both.

    A side story:
    This reminds me, we had a volunteers' meeting after the service yesterday. Normally the prayer ministers and choir come to the railing ahead of all others to receive the sacrament. One item the rector brought up was that the ushers should not wait long after those people have knelt at the rail, but they should immediately begin releasing the front pews and filling up the railing "so as to preserve the timely flow of the service." I joshed with the rector that the delay was not due to the ushers but was attributable to him, for when people are kneeling at the railing he is still up at the altar "pouring and mixing!" :p
     
  10. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    There is no certainty of that.

    We have been advised that hand sanitizer should be at least 60% alcohol to be effective. Any communion wine approaching anything like that would definitely be 'spiritual' in more ways than one.

    In the UK all church srvices except weddings and funerals have been indefinitely suspended as from Wednesday this week. (Weddings restricted to 6 persons present), We have for the previous couple of weeks only received in one kind, and receiving neither is as effectual for those of faith, as would be receiving either or both since both are sacramental, not a necessity to salvation.

    As soon as this virus has abated let us rejoice in once again celebrating the Eucharist together because, it is our duty to receive the Communion in remembrance of the sacrifice of Christ's death : as He himself has commanded, which if we shall neglect to do, consider with ourselves how great injury we do unto God by our refusal to partake of his spiritual commemorative banquet.
    .
     
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  11. Magistos

    Magistos Active Member Anglican

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    Indeed. Liquor above 60% would be Everclear or strong Bourbon. Most whiskey and Scotch only hit 40% to 50%, and the drinkable sweet spot is about 43%.

    Rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) is 70%.
     
  12. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    RN Rum Tot was somewhere near 110 proof. Good stuff.
    That would be about 55% by volume, but I can assure you 1/2 Gill of it, each day, certainly met the "Sweet Spot" definition OK.
    Shame they stopped it in 1972.

    "Up Spirits", "The Queen, God Bless Her".

    People get confused between "Proof" and "% Alcohol content".
    .
     
  13. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Mere mortals injuring God? Is that even possible (aside from what humans did to Jesus while He walked the earth)?

    Sin harms the sinner, and it can harm those around him. I understand the idea of 'grieving' God, but 'injuring' seems to imply doing actual harm. God is immune from physical injury, and I doubt even WWII gave Him a case of divine PTSD. ;) God is pretty tough! And Jesus never specified any certain, specific frequency of receiving Communion.

    You're probably right about alcohol content, :tiphat: I was just repeating something I'd heard, no facts to back it up.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
  14. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    deleted
     
  15. mediaque

    mediaque Active Member

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    Unfortunately, down here in Alabama, this kinda a mute for me as our services have been suspended for the rest of the month. I can't even go to church. :(
     
  16. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    I was mostly quoting from the BCP 1662, so you should take it up with the authors. :laugh: We can certainly grieve the Holy Spirit by our lack of gratitude. Eph.4:30, and who is to say that carelessly causing grief is not causing injury in spirit, and God IS Spirit. What I wrote was taken from the Exhortation to those who are negligent to come to the holy Communion, which was to be used instead of the Invitation to Communion in the case of the minister meeting resistance :no: to the invitation.

    My havn't times changed. :o :hmm:
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
  17. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Well, I must say, that is quite interesting!
     

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