Covenantal Basis of Sacramental Validity

Discussion in 'Sacraments and Holy Orders' started by Chartreux, Dec 23, 2020.

  1. Chartreux

    Chartreux Member

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    There's a local church I investigated going to which turned out to be Anglo-Catholic once I spoke to the Reverend on the phone. He was fairly cold and distant. He said he had never heard of the problem often brought up about transubstantiation being a philosophical attempt to explain a mystery, and seemed confused why someone would use that argument. He said the church has always believed in transubstantiation, that the people on this forum don't know what they're talking about, and that Anglo-Catholicism, which tolerates things like adoring the eucharist, is in fact traditional Anglicanism as they practice it at their parish. He said Rome gave the Reformers what they deserved at Trent, and that he didn't think Cranmer or Tyndale's martyrdom was a big deal. He just said awkwardly, "Eh, it doesn't matter." He also seemed to confirm what I was told about Anglo-Catholics on this forum, saying in one conversation that they follow all the articles, then later on saying it's just a spectrum and a product of it's time. He also seemed to dodge certain questions of mine regarding the sanctity of their practices while claiming the articles don't really mean what they say. When proscribing how often you need to come to communion, he was undecided and just settled with Rome's 'every Sunday' view, because he couldn't think of anything else, like he had never thought this out before. He said the same thing about venial/mortal sin, and that the apocrypha was scripture. He said the articles claiming Jerome rejected them are in error. Lastly, he said that if you are not in either the Orthodox, Roman Catholic, or Anglo-Catholic churches, you will go to hell. I never ended up visiting his church.
     
  2. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    You shall know them by their fruit. His tastes particularly 'bitter'.
     
  3. Moses

    Moses Member

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    If he's a decently informed, Novus Ordo conservative type, he'll know that the Orthodox have "valid" holy mysteries regardless of what his priest says.

    And if that's the case, he might be interested to know that displaced Orthodox in America communed at Anglican/Episcopalian parishes from the time of Phillip Ludwell III all the way up until the Episcopal Church began ordaining women. Not only that, but in the early 20th century most of the Orthodox patriarchs explicitly stated belief in the legitimacy of Anglican orders.

    If he's a Roman Catholic, he should obey his own Church's rules about where to commune. But that's not to say that he shouldn't know that the two One True Churches have recognized the existence of the Body of Christ outside their own official boundaries.
     
  4. Moses

    Moses Member

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    What exactly is wrong? For me, at least, it is distracting when someone on the altar doesn't seem to know what to do. On the other hand, when everyone on the altar knows exactly what to do, they fade into the background and become a coordinated whole. A part of the liturgy instead of an interruption.

    Maybe I'm misunderstand the criticism.
     
  5. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Nothing wrong with doing everything in worship in good order and a dignified manner, so as not to become a distraction.

    Everything wrong with insistence on military pecision with a view to getting the ritual right so it 'works', and thus becoming the focus of attraction.
    .
     
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  6. Admin

    Admin Administrator Staff Member Typist Anglican

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