Coptic patriarch rejects women priests as un-Biblical

Discussion in 'Navigating Through Church Life' started by anglican74, Jan 11, 2022.

  1. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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  2. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Great! :cheers:

    I'm sure he's a wonderful church leader, but personally I would not want to be caught dead wearing that hat. :laugh:
     
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  3. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    Pope Tawardros commands our respect. He has had members of his Church beheaded on the Beach in Lybia, and he has had his Cathedral Bombled and he stnds for faith, and forgiveness, and is a great beacon of light in a dark part of the world.
     
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  4. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Sorry if I sounded like I was being flippant toward Tawardros; I didn't mean it that way. I'm only 'dissing' that headgear.
     
  5. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    dissing
    1. speak disrespectfully to or criticize.
    He stands in an historic tradition within the Oriental Orthodox Church, and deserves the proper respect of all of Christendom. The historic headwear of the Oriental Orthodox Patriarch is the mark of someone who stands within that tradition, and those of us outside the cultural milleiu and tradition to which he beongs have to be concerned about faith, and hope, and love, and ought not be bothered with ecclesiatical fasionista criticisms.
     
  6. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    I still wouldn't be caught dead wearing that hat (not only because it looks overly pretentious but also because I would never wear that sort of iconography). Since you "have to be" so "concerned about faith, and hope, and love," I'm confident that you will not let yourself be bothered by my fashion choices. :buba:
     
  7. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    thank you, indeed!
     
  8. Annie Grace

    Annie Grace Member

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    I agree with Rexlion here - that 'crown' is simply too much. Jesus was a King who refused the worldly trappings of kingship, so I really don't understand why our Christian leaders have to dress so pompously. I might respect the man and his actions, but not necessarily his fashion sense.

    Besides, none of this has anything to do with the article. As for his opinion about female ordination, I defend to the death (almost) his right to have that opinion but to use an abbreviation I learned recently... YMMV. *

    * For those who can't be bothered looking it up, it basically means 'your mileage may vary', or in English, an opinion is basically subjective.
     
  9. Invictus

    Invictus Well-Known Member

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  10. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Well-Known Member

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    But yet Jesus worshipped in the Temple which was very ornate and the Priests were very ornate and never once did he actually criticize the worship of the Temple. That type of worship was commanded by the law and Jesus came to complete the law not to end it.
     
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  11. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    let's be careful that we don't use modern pop culture and secular aethesthetics, and atheist images and (negative) stories, to evaluate the worth of esteemed Christian patriarchs
     
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  12. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree! None of my comments have been intended to cast the patriarch in a negative light.
     
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  13. PDL

    PDL Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I find it quite sad, unnecessary and unworthy for anyone to criticise the vesture of Pope Tawadros II of Alexandria. That is the vesture of the Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria and I see no reason to disrespect it.
     
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  14. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Look, if any of you would be perfectly fine with wearing iconography atop your head, go for it. To me it's just wrong to do that. (If for some unfathomable reason they appointed me the Coptic patriarch, I would still refuse to wear that thing.) But then, I also have a problem with the overall level of icon/image use in the Orthodox churches (one of the reasons why I would never become Orthodox).

    Now, maybe I was wrong to post this ( :laugh: ), and if my flippant attitude offended anyone, I apologize.
     
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  15. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Well-Known Member

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    It is not the images that are problems it is how we relate to them that can be a possible problem
     
  16. Annie Grace

    Annie Grace Member

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    Didn't the Pope stop wearing the papal tiara around 1963? Paul VI was it?

    Jesus criticised the Pharisees for being ostentatious while also telling the people to do what they say but not what they do.

    Luke 11:37–54)

    1Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples: 2“The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So practice and observe everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, burdensome loadsa and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. 5 All their deeds are done for men to see. They broaden their phylacteries and lengthen their tassels. 6 They love the places of honor at banquets, the chief seats in the synagogues, 7the greetings in the marketplaces, and the title of ‘Rabbi’ by which they are addressed.


    I mean no disrespect to any religious leader, but I see no need for ostentation, since Jesus did not act this way.
     
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  17. PDL

    PDL Well-Known Member Anglican

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    As I understand it Pope Paul VI was crowned with the papal tiara. He never wore it again after his coronation. I believe no pope has worn it since. I believe its use was stopped not because it was considered ostentatious but because of the particular symbolism it had. One of its symbols was the pope's claim to temporal power. It was this that was abandoned at the end of the Third Session of the Second Vatican Council. Pope Paul VI was renouncing human glory and power.

    It is wrong to class the headdress* of the Pope of the Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria as ostentatious. Like all vestments it has a particular symbolism. It is worn for that reason.

    My beloved grandmother always wore a hat. She bought ones she liked, she felt suited her head/face and which she thought would go with the clothes/accessories she was going to wear. The Coptic Orthodox pope does not wear his headdress* in like manner. It is not a case of, "what do you think of my new, fancy hat?". It is a particular symbolic vestment of that particular Christian church. I believe we ought to show respect and not criticise.

    *Unfortunately, I do not know the correct name of this particular vestment worn on the pope's head.
     
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  18. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Well-Known Member

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    That has nothing to do with vestments or even very elaborate and rich dressing. The Pharisees were one of the branches of Judism at the time. Have you seen how God, who also is Jesus, commanded his temple to be built? Have you seen how he told his priests to dress? It was very elaborate and decorative. Jesus, when he came the first time, never countermanded any of that.
     
  19. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Active Member

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    Where did Jesus tell people to do what the Pharisees say and not what they do?
     
  20. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    I think that would be found in Matthew 23:2-3. :)