In what way would an Anglican convince a Catholic to convert? Especially when the Catholic is against gay marriage and abortion.
Anglicans ARE catholic, just not Roman Catholic. Do you imagine that no Roman Catholics have ever had terminations of pregnancy and that there are no gay persons in the Roman Catholic church within stable and monogamous relationships? If you are looking for an organisation that keeps ALL its rules and ensures all obey them or are forcibly ejected, then try the Muslim religion or the Mormons or perhaps start one of your own. .
Yes, I am aware that probably the majority of Catholics don't follow the "rules". But it seems to me a stumblingblock to join a church that officially affirms this. I do admire the liturgy and music of the local episcopal church. I'm not looking to start my own church, but Im really just checking to see if all Anglicans believe these things or if it's just an optional thing. Sorry if I have offended.
Anglicanism in N. America is represented by something like 26 separate 'flavors.' Some are quite niche and hard to find, like those steamed burgers in Central Connecticut.
You haven't offended me yet. I'm a disciple of Jesus Christ. He expects me to be difficult to offend. It's a requirement of discipleship. Choosing to worship and serve God within a denomination is no guarantee of salvation. Only a direct appeal to Christ and a pledge of eternal obedience to his teaching and discipline, by sanctification overseen by The Holy Spirit can secure that for you. You can get it just as well in the Anglican communion as you may in the Roman Catholic 'business'. Try the sinners prayer. "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me, a sinner". It's the starting point for ALL disciples. .
Yes, I understand. I guess I'm struggling with the Catholic understanding of mortal sin vs venial sin. Especially in confession. I suffer a bit from anxiety and OCD and it drives me crazy thinking at anytime I have committed a mortal sin and will go to hell. I know it is a possibility, but the thought of it doesn't make my scrupulosity any better, that's for sure. And also the thought of the Catholic church saying if you leave you will go to hell is quite disturbing also. Im in a marriage in which my wife is not Catholic and it is causing a bit of problems.
Try reading "God of Surprises" , do the Ignatian exercises or go deeper into a fuller understanding of God's Grace, especially to his elect, (those who trust in the atonement won for us by Our Saviour Jesus Christ). THEN, and only then, think about changing denominations if you still think it might help. You are in a marriage with a wife who is not ROMAN Catholic, there is a difference. Have no fear, the ROMAN Catholic denomination has not cornered the market in 'your salvation'. That is entirely in the hands of Jesus Christ, not the Pope or any of his red robed lackies. By the way, I have met Gerald Huges on an Ignatian retreat in Scotland. a remarkably spiritual man. If you can discover more about the exercises of St. Ignatius you may discover more than you had ever guessed to be true about yourself and God. .
Anglican Catholics, Anglo-Catholics are a varied group of churches. Some adhere as best as possible to the edicts of old. Some wish to "grow" and become modern or current in their acceptance of things social and philosophical. Even amongst those that allow for such change, there is disagreement to what extent the acceptance goes. Some accept ordination of females and others do not. I was drawn to the Anglican Catholic Church and its, now, G-3 partners in ecumenical union or communion. I am fortunate in that I am located within minutes of a parish of the Anglican Catholic Church in one direction and within minutes of a parish of the Anglican Province in America the other direction. I see the Archbishop and Metropolitan of the ACC often and also do see and speak with the Presiding Bishop of the APA. Both are in G-3.
I am a former Roman Catholic. I hated the whole concept of mortal v venial sins and the accompanying guilt it seems to cause. I also hated the whole idea that anyone who isn't a RC will go to hell. I am an Anglican now - a lot less guilt and no worry that I am going to hell. Make the jump out of that cult and experience a little peace in loving Christ and being his disciple instead of always feeling bad about yourself.
Ok, understood. Thank you. The closest church to me is St Luke's Episcopal. I've looked them up online Liturgically they seem much better. Music is much better also. I know that parish openly for the concerns that I had listed. But there are I'm sure many Roman Catholics in the pews that would affirm this also. It's mainly just on paper. I've never heard a homily on homosexuality or abortion before, unless you look it up on YouTube. I'll consider visiting the episcopal church this weekend.
Yeah, the idea of mortal and venial sins will drive you crazy! I had a bad experience in which my wife didn't want to get off birth control and I wanted to. A priest told me a couldn't have relations with my wife while she is on it. I unfortunately listened to him and it almost destroyed my marriage. I have a bad taste in my mouth from that. She is her own person and I can't completely control what she does. I have a desire to lead a good Christian life, but at the same time I don't want to worry constantly about going to hell. I'll consider visiting my local episcopal church. It has a better Liturgy than the Catholic churches in my town anyway. I've watch a couple of services online.
Practically every aspect of modern Catholic teaching on sin, including reproductive ethics/family planning, is rationally unsupportable and empirically harmful to those who try to practice it. I would run the other way as fast as you can.
Yeah, some of it is odd. Like natural family planning vs artificial birth control. The objective is the same, just different means. One is allowable and the other not. I believe that the line has to be drawn somewhere regarding sin, but it's not always black and white.
Ryan, I was raised Roman Catholic and remained so until my mid or late 20s. After a sojourn through some Protestant churches, now I attend an Anglican church that's part of the Anglican Churches in North America (ACNA). The ACNA in general, and my diocese in particular, teach pretty staunchly against gay marriage and abortion. I'd like to put your mind at ease, if possible, on the matter of sin. Jesus said, he who believes and is baptized will be saved, but those who don't believe (trust) in him will be damned (Mark 16). He really emphasized having faith in Him, and the fact that all who truly believe in Him as Savior will have eternal life. Jesus did talk about living rightly by loving God and loving one another, and those two things really encompass all of the law. But for the person who truly trusts that Jesus' redemptive sacrifice was fully sufficient and fully efficacious for the forgiveness of our sins, there should be a certain sense of liberty and of having the burden of sin-guilt lifted away. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out (John 6:37). He knows you struggle with sin. He knows (because He lived it) how the flesh and the mind tug on the spirit and makes us want to do what we shouldn't. He bore your sins anyway. When you came to Him, He forgave you anyway. He knows we'll mess up, and have to confess our sin to Him and repent, but always he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). Romans 8:1-2 tells us: There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Hebrews 4:14-26 says, Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. I love what it says in the first chapter of Ephesians: Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence.... In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest (the confirmation that God will do what He promised) of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory (Eph. 1:3-8, 11-14). You see, the Bible teaches us that the Holy Spirit indwells every person who believes that Jesus Christ died and rose again for the remission of that person's sins. When that happens, the person is "born again" or spiritually recreated; if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new (2 Cor. 5:17). Once the Holy Spirit comes to live inside the believer, he has become a child of God (part of God's family and of the invisible, spiritual church (as opposed to the visible church which contains many unredeemed individuals). In God's eyes, He has graced the recreated believer with His own righteousness; right-standing is imputed to us by His mighty power (2 Cor. 5:21 says, For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.) This is why Ephesians says He "has" (paste tense) made us acceptable to Him and we "have" (present tense) redemption and forgiveness by God's grace. The Holy Spirit is our helper, Comforter, and guide; He will not abandon us. The Roman Church teaches its members that a serious ("mortal") sin causes instantaneous loss of right-standing and salvation. This implies that the Holy Spirit flees in horror and disgust whenever a child of God commits any of the acts on that church's "extra-naughty deeds list". And then He moves back inside the believer when he gets absolved and does penance. Nothing in the Bible teaches or even suggests such a thing. Would the third Person of the Trinity 'do the hokey-pokey', in and out and in and out of a person? Or does He come to stay, permanently, in every one whom He knows (in His infinite knowledge) to be His child, a believer who will persevere in trusting God at the end of mortal life? Clearly, the word of God indicates the latter. This is why Eph. 3:12 says, in Christ we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith in him. We are like the prodigal son: always wandering off, doing our own thing, and making mistakes, yet every time we come back to our heavenly Father, He celebrates and reminds us that we never stopped being His.
I don't want to reignite the 'I'm not prejudiced against RCs' forum, but here are some points to add, for what they're worth: - The Roman church holds onto this precious fiction that it hasn't substantially changed since late antiquity. - For that matter, if you dispel the pope, you necessarily dissolve the whole religion post-Vatican I - Romanists like to criticize protestants for their provinciality, but, as the nineteenth article of religion obliquely points out, the Roman church has exactly the same problem, even if it happens to be bigger. It's not too useful to say "He started it," when it comes to church schisms, but the papal excommunications are often a crucial reason why dialogue ended. - Romanists will also criticize the church of England for being an organ of the state, but, in all reality, the Roman church has historically also been an organ for various monarchies, and kings had considerable say on who got to be bishop, disregarded various papal instructions (the Italian inquisition was supposed to be a global one), and generally influenced papal policy (King Henry VIII's annulment would have had political ramifications if granted, likely the determining factor in that episode. Earlier, the French kings ran monstrous interference). Romanists also prefer to ignore the inconvenient fact that the pope was himself a monarch over territories stretching across Italy, and, indeed, still is a monarch in the Vatican. - On the subject of gay marriage and all, Romanists of a sort of Chestertonian persuasion cling to the vanity that the Roman church is a bastion of conservatism. It's not, when viewed as a global entirety. Particularly not in Latin America if I understand correctly. This forum (albeit kinda self-righteously) is teeming with examples of the Roman church doing things that would cause the great conservatives of the 19th and 20th centuries to despair. Side note: if you want a good picture of why protestantism happened as a whole and isn't just abject apostasy, you might try reading the Augsburg confession, which is a Lutheran document, not an Anglican one, but it's incisive and gives a good idea about why the medieval church wasn't exactly spotless piety.
I do not see any reason why being opposed to gay marriage and abortion would prevent you from becoming Anglican. Being an Anglican dos not mean you have to abandon all God's laws. Despite what some think sin exists and it is our responsibility to avoid it. Hell also exists and we should follow Christ's teachings to avoid going there. Sadly, some parts of Anglicanism have forgotten we are part of the Christian Church and that the Church should provide moral leadership. Too many bow down to the totalitarianism of twenty-first century seular morality.
I concur, One problem I am seeing in my area is not the absence of moral leadership, but the lack of quality teaching. Churches are struggling to find people capable of handling the tasks given to them. This is also compounded by the fact that volunteerism among groups under the age of 50 has dropped due to those committed to work are having to dedicate more time to it to maintain their present living conditions in the wake of rising inflation. Rote memory learning is not effective enough on its own to educate the young in Bible lessons and stories (and growing numbers of adults for that matter, too). It's possible to know all the words [of the Bible] without understanding what any of them are saying. Home gatherings need to make a comeback. From what I've also gathered, dramatization classes go a long way, making the Bible more accessible and relatable. Appreciation for the arts is increasingly becoming an exclusive pastime of the privileged. At least, this is some of the observations comedian, actor and Sunday school teacher Dick Van Dyke made in the 1970s, of all things, which I am witnessing today and am sure many here are also experiencing. Short version (recap): Philistinism is a menace and the public needs more support to interact with each other in person.