Christian responses to US Politics

Discussion in 'The Commons' started by Tiffy, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    I wish I could say, but this one is a picture I picked out of google photos and it didn't identify a location. (Unlike the previous ones, which were crops of one of my one photos.)

    Never say 'never.' ;) Anything's possible!
     
  2. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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  3. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Question to Trump lawyers: You showed a lot of video clips showing Democrats saying “fight.” Do you have any footage of their audiences rioting right after at exactly the places they suggested they should 'fight'? :no: :laugh:
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  4. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Trump lawyers also played a substantially longer video/audio clip of the speech, so people could hear the context of the "fight" remark which Democrats find so objectionable. It reveals that the "we" whom Trump said must "fight like hell" were the officials elected by the conservative constituents; Trump went on to say that if the elected officials don't fight the wrongs on behalf of the people, the people need to vote them out at the next opportunity and replace them with representatives and senators who will fight for them.

    Anyone who insists that Trump was telling the listeners to march to the Capitol and "fight like hell" physically (let alone violently) has been drinking the MSM's Kool-Aid and should be feeling mighty embarrassed about their own gullibility. That is, if they are willing to listen to the full context of the remarks, and to stop believing the lies of the MSM corporations. MSM, along with the bulk of the D.C. politicians and the administrative state, all stand in stiff formation in their matching uniforms and little caps awaiting orders from the billionaire globalist elites, who in turn listen to their legions of demons. (Actually, the journalists, politicians, and bureaucrats have their own demons as well, all of whom help orchestrate the lies.)

    Who is the father of lies, after all? There is a master deceiver, a master planner behind all of this. When people lie like hell about a man and continually strive to destroy him for 4+ years, we should be wise enough to recognize the pattern and its ultimate source. (Who is the one that "comes to kill, steal and destroy?") But some people never learn, and they repeat the error of Eve.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
  5. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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  6. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Copied from an Epoch Times (premium content for subscribers) article, showing one of the great accomplishments of the former president:
    Former President Donald Trump’s efforts to create an office dedicated to fighting sex trafficking have made an “incredible impact” over the past four years, according to the founder of a nonprofit organization focused on combating child sex trafficking.

    Before Trump, “we’ve never had an office in the White House designated and dedicated to fighting sex trafficking, Jaco Booyens, the founder of SHAREtogether, said in an interview with Epoch Times affiliate NTD on Feb. 5. “No former president in the history of this country has used his or her platform to denounce the exploitation of children and then appropriate funding.

    “So we’ve seen an incredible impact over the years, over the last four years, particularly toward the support for law enforcement.”

    Last week, 64 people were arrested and two women were rescued in an anti-human trafficking sting in California’s Riverside County. The arrests were part of Operation Reclaim and Rebuild, an annual statewide operation, that “ran for four consecutive days before concluding on January 28, 2021,” the county’s Sheriff’s Department stated on Feb. 2.

    “It’s a big orchestration, to execute a sting or a bust, like what we’ve just seen in California, and it takes months and months of planning and funding,” Booyens said. “And that’s why it’s very important for … local, state, and federal governments to support the fight against sex trafficking, because you cannot do it on your own.”

    He noted that for such operations to succeed, they need to be able to be conducted in a way that they can have standing in court; some connections between the judicial system and the police have to exist.

    Regular police officers, he said, aren’t trained to investigate, profile, or conduct that sort of an operation. It requires special training and a lot of resources and effort.

    “We’ve seen a tremendous rise in the apprehension, the arrest of perpetrators and rescue of victims under the Trump administration, no question about it,” Booyens said. “In these cases that you’re seeing now such as California, and you’ll see some others coming out now, they’ve been nine, 10 months in the making under the Trump administration—in that mechanism of funding law enforcement appropriately, having special task forces.”​

    Trump was a law-and-order guy at heart, and he had a lot of compassion for victims of wrongdoing. (I would have even more compassion for victims than I already feel, were I victimized as Trump has been.) By the way, as soon as the Biden administration took over, they removed from the White House website the list of accomplishments achieved during the Trump administration. This was unprecedented. Normally those things are left for posterity, for history's sake. The hatred of Trump is palpable. (And, last time I'd checked, hatred was not of God.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
  7. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    When I look at the Trump Administration, admittedly from afar, I see a President who was flawed in a number of ways, yet still a man capable of much vision, and engaging in a way that was able to resonate with a great swathe of the US electors. He was able to identify common points of pain in the electorate and harness that in order to be swept into office. His background included Real Estate, Sales, and Reality TV. What he accomplished in the Middle East is remarkable, and probably very significant. I believe his work their is worth of a Nobel Peace Prize. There was much he did without showmanship that is to be lauded. None the less part of his signature resonation with the common man, was also very divisive.

    Never have we seen so much of a Presidents thought pattern, and the endless twitter parade was probably a mistake. To some extent he robbed the office of President of the United States of some of it's dignity. To some extent it seemed that the Presidency of the United States had simply become the next franchise in the long running franchise "The Apprentice", and whilst the ratings seemed good for a while, he ran into trouble over the public health crisis of the pandemic, and ultimately the people got to say to the host "You're Fired".

    It is absolute nonsense to say that someone is all bad, just as it is absolute nonsense to say that someone is all good. It does however seem to me that DJT is quiet capable of declaring his accomplishments as the "Best President since Abraham Lincoln", and to sprout his virtue in saving millions of lives through the pandemic. I don't recall seeing a shed of humility is the guy, and that is often a problem in alpha male leadership, but then no one is perfect.
     
  8. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Don’t we just pretend Trump didn’t get acquitted if we don’t like the result? Isn’t that how things work now? :laugh:
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  9. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    If it were a high-profile CRIMINAL trial in a regular courtroom, and one of the jurors admitted afterwards that they voted to acquit even though believing the accused was clearly guilty, wouldn’t a retrial be ordered?
     
  10. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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  11. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Senators voting to impeach represent 61.6% of Americans (202 million). Senators voting to acquit represent 38.2% of Americans (125 million).

    202,119,286 people represented by those who voted to impeach.
    Only 125,414,488 people represented by those who voted against impeachment.

    For impeachment = 76.6 million more US voters represented.

    It seems your 'Democracy' has gone down the tubes. You are now run by a fanatical minority of Trump fans, and apparently liking it. :laugh:

    Just as well it was not a court of law then, not even a democracy, more a hypocrisy.
     
  12. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    That's right; in a criminal court proceeding the jury would have to be unanimous in their verdict of guilt. :policeus: It's designed that way to prevent a deceived 'mere majority' from wrongfully convicting an innocent man. :D
     
  13. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Innocent man? :laugh: :biglaugh: Pure as the driven slush. :clap:
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  14. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Your comment is quite correct in a moral sense, since even your righteousness and mine are as clean as soiled menstrual rags in God's eyes. Much worse than the driven slush!

    But under the criminal law in our country, a man is presumed innocent of any crime until he is proven guilty. Since the USA is the only nation in the world (that I'm aware of) which does not presume guilt, the burden of proof is always upon the prosecution to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. (In contrast, most places could lock up you or me and assume we are guilty, only letting us out if we proved our own legal lack of guilt.) This is a key element of American jurisprudence and one that we Americans are proud of; the USA has long been the freest nation on earth, perhaps the freest nation in history. As the saying goes, better to let 99 guilty men go free than to imprison an innocent man by error. (Regrettably, the progressives and socialists and even some communists have managed to rewrite the history books and the school's curricula, and today's younger adults for lack of knowledge are choosing leaders and courses of action that voluntarily surrender our freedoms and may well lead to the destruction of our republic.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2021
  15. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Amazingly parochial level of knowledge there, I think. Just about everywhere the British Empire was, guilt was required to be proven in courts of law. But of course, as you have already said, this was not a court of law so Trum was not declared 'innocent' he was just not impeached. Perhaps our Aussie and NZ friends can confirm that they have a similar 'not guilty untill proven so' legal systems. How many ex Empire and Commonwealth countries have gone back on that principle I don't know but definitely Burma seems to have gone back on it, judging from recent events.
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    Last edited: Feb 15, 2021
  16. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    The presumption of innocence is a widespread foundation of Judicial Systems in many countries and @Tiffy points to the o the British Empire.

    https://www.ideablawg.ca/blog/2012/...-innocence-the-international-perspective.html

    This article discusses it, and indeed it is much more widespread than I had thought.

    In general, any nation seeking to have a reasonable approach to human right is likely to embrace it. How it is implemented may well have some variances in different jurisdictions, but it is quite clear in theory if not in practice.

    I should be noted that this is a legal maxim, In dubio pro reo, and it should be noted that the western media still hasn't quite worked it out yet.

    You are not so likely to find it under a military junta, and nations where it seems you don't have it might include Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and North Korea.

    China presumes neither guilt or innocence, and this can be difficult to navigate without someone who clearly understands their process.

    In short, the USA is but one of many nations where the presumption of innocence is part of the base of the legal system.
     
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  17. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for clearing that up for me. I certainly had gotten the impression from our UK friend that they in the UK presume Trump's guilt, so it was easy to assume (incorrectly, it appears) that their legal standards are more draconian. But then, perhaps the draconian presumptions are only those of select individuals.... ;)
     
  18. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    I certainly don't presume his innocence, having watched his speech and his performances at other 'rallies'. He is a sinner, like the rest of us. Certainly an unrepentant one though as far as lying to the electorate is concerned.
     
  19. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    From: https://www.theepochtimes.com/surve...-be-christian-but-dont-practice_3699239.html?

    Survey: Most Biden Voters Claim to Be Christian but Don’t Practice
    By Mark Tapscott
    February 16, 2021 Updated: February 16, 2021

    Nearly two-thirds of self-identified voters who backed President Joe Biden in the 2020 election claim to be Christians, but they don’t take it very seriously, according to noted religion researcher George Barna.

    Barna, who is director of research for the Cultural Research Center at Arizona Christian University, surveyed 1,000 adults immediately following the November 2020 election.

    Barna found that among Biden voters, 65 percent called themselves Christians, but only 15 percent claimed to be “born-again,” the description typically associated with Evangelicals.

    “Only three out of 10 (30 percent) believe that the Bible is the actual or inspired word of God and contains no errors,” Barna wrote in the survey report made public on Feb. 16.

    “That helps to explain why three-fourths of Biden supporters do not identify the Bible as their most trusted source of moral guidance. Their dominant sources of moral guidance are their feelings, experiences, friends, and family. (emphasis added)

    “Consistent with that widespread rejection of the Bible, three-quarters of the Biden followers (75 percent) also believe that there is no absolute moral truth; in their eyes, ‘identifying moral truth is up to each individual, there are no moral absolutes that apply to everyone, all the time.’”

    Other findings include the fact that only a third (31 percent) of the Biden voters said they are active in a local church congregation. Protestant voters gave Trump 47 percent, compared to 33 percent for Biden, while Catholics gave Biden 44 percent, compared to 40 percent for Trump. Among people claiming a non-Christian faith, 53 percent voted for Biden.

    Barna also found that “the religious views of Biden’s voters directly translate to their policy preferences. For instance, 60 percent of his base, which is largely pro-abortion, argues that ‘the Bible is ambiguous on the matter of abortion; it is possible to make compelling biblical arguments either for or against abortion.’”

    “Similarly, his base is overwhelmingly in favor of extending LGBTQ rights, which conforms to the finding that six out of 10 (58 percent) of his voters reject the notion that ‘the marriage of one man to one woman is God’s only acceptable plan for humanity, applicable to all cultures on earth.’”.....​

    This last point might help explain the following: "On Feb. 2, President Joe Biden announced to African leaders in a virtual summit conference on Zoom that the United States was “promoting” the rights of LGBTQI (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, and intersex) individuals." Biden has instructed his administrators that foreign aid is to be made contingent upon the recipient nation's support of those rights.
    https://www.theepochtimes.com/biden...ghts-arouses-pushback-in-africa_3699207.html?
     
  20. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    So according to George Barna (the noted religion researcher), disciples of Jesus Christ must "claim to be born again" and believe the Bible is "the actual or inspired word of God and contains no errors", otherwise they obviously don't qualify as "serious Christians", yet neither of these requirements are to be found in Holy Scripture as a means by which to guage or measure another disciple's 'seriousness' of commitment to his master's commands.

    Servants of God, (the bible says), commend themselves through endurance, in affliction, hardship, calamities, beatings, imprisonments, riots, labours, sleepless nights, hunger; by purity, knowledge, patience, kindness, holiness of spirit, genuine love, truthful speech, and the power of God; with weapons of righteousness in right and left hands, though honour and dishonour; in ill repute and good repute; treated as imposters and yet true; as unknown yet well known; as dying and yet alive; as punished and yet not killed; as sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, yet posessing everything.

    The "truthful speech" thing though seems to have completely eluded the 47% of Protestant churchgoing Trump supporters and 40% Roman Catholic supporters, as a characteristic to be looked for in a genuine leader though. :laugh:
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