Calvinism and Christianity - incompatible?

Did you notice there is no "altar" in this church? In fact, you'll find the same thing in many of the 18th century churches in South Carolina and even in the 18th century PEC churches constructed in Florida. The ones in Florida are made from heart pine.

 

And you think you and Charlie are contributing positively by wanting to exclude everybody but Calvinists from the Anglican Communion?

 

And I guess that's what they were doing when they hanged four Quakers on Boston Common, huh? State church persecutors bore the same guilt, whatever stripe they were.

 

As far as I can remember, the majority of the people in this thread believe that Calvinism has no place in the Church of England and the Anglican Communion. In fact, the very title of this thread suggests that Calvinism is something altogether alien to Christianity itself. In other words, a heresy. Some posters have even qualified Reformed theology as a "cancer" or a "doctrine of Satan," and John Calvin himself as "sick." I'm sure I'm forgetting some adjectives here.

It's a bit surprising that you should be pointing fingers at the few Calvinists in this thread that have tried to demonstrate and clarify through Scripture and logic the positions of Reformed theology: not only its legitimacy as a Christian theological school but also how it's the most coherent exposition of the Gospel. I don't recall neither myself, Charlie, Scottish Knight, Hackney or Pax Christi, for instance, engaging in permanent and non-constructive vitriol. Unfortunately, the same can't be said of everyone but I guess such is the nature of discussions.

 

Celtic, the difference is that the colonial Anglican churches were Protestant. The pictures from St. James shows that clearly since there is no altar. The pulpit is the central feature of the church, showing that the preaching of God's Word was central, not the Eucharist.

As for exclusion, it was the others here that said Calviniists don't belong. I simply pointed out that if anyone doesn't belong it is the innovators of the 18th and the 19th century, namely the Tractarians. Before that the Reformed and the high church Arminians tolerated each other. Of course the Wesleys engaged in the tract wars against Augustus Toplady. But Whitefield tried to make peace.


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I didn't know who the other Calvinists were. But I've tried my best to be polite. I sincerely do not wish to offend anyone. But the cross is an offense no matter how you look at it.


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And yet all you have done is offend others and now you act like you are the Cross.

 

The cross and Scripture is offensive. It always has been. It's what got the apostles thrown in jail and martyred.

 

And as long as you're remembering, I hope you will also remember how I've said that I wish to see no orthodox doctrinal position nor those who hold them excluded from the Anglican Communion, even though diametrically opposed to my personal positions. Although I am vehemently against Calvinist doctrine, I also recognize that we all "see through a glass, darkly." In fact, the older I get and the more I learn, the more I also realize just how much we all do not know. We truly have this treasure in earthen vessels, a fact that is demonstrated here daily.

I wish you no harm, or anyone else here, and I do not wish to see you or anyone else excluded from the Anglican Communion.

 

You find one parish with a table instead an altar and you say thats the norm rather than an exception?

 

Celtic,

Even if it wasn't clear before, let me clarify to you now that I harbour no personal animosity towards you or anyone else in this forum. Our doctrinal disagreements, even being important as they are, do not and should not translate into hard feelings. Sometimes harsher language is used, and I am obviously also guilty of it, but I make an honest effort in not trying to attack anyone personally.

God bless you.

 

Thank you very much for that.

God bless you, too.

 

The point is that period in which this church and others like it were built pre-dated the Anglo-Catholic/Tractarian heresy. I observed the same thing at the church buildings constructed in the mid-1800s in Florida. No altars were on the walls.


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Worry not LL, even AC's can make use of them. There's an Elizabethan Holy Table in a neighbouring church to my own where the Rector used it as an Altar of Repose for the Blessed Sacrament on Maundy Thursday. Failing that, they're good for serving the post-Communion tea and biscuits.

Here's a Jacobean one in a Church near me, but as you can see, it appears that they've succumbed to Carolingian, or dare one say, Tractarian/Ritualist influence by placing two candles and a Cross on it. The dear Rector however assures me that it's purely practical so he can see to read the 1662 Prayer Book. Still, at least they haven't obliterated it with a Laudian frontal, Heaven forbid!

 

Well, we all know ritual is more important than Scriptural truth. But then isn't that what leads to ordaining women and homosexuals in the first place? Esthetics over dogma and systematic theology? I'm sure it's great fun playing "dress up".

 

Where is the pulpit in your photo? I know. It doesn't exist!

 

Mormon, Baptist, Pentecostal, Apostolic, Catholic, and snake handling believers from around the world would all say scripture, just as you would, and with as much conviction. What was the belief system of the thief on the cross, or perhaps the Ethiopian eunic? St. Paul penned most of our NT scripture and was a highly educated man who had risen to the top of the Jewish leadership, but he was able to discern what was a salvific priority and be content bringing the simple message of the cross to corrupt Corinth. The verbose debate of this thread has had zero positive effect on the kingdom, no one has abandoned their belief system for Calvin, and we continue to look like argumentative fools to the outside world.

Jeff

 

Charley, you certainly have a way with words.

 

Oh Charlie, now your being sillier than me. Of course it has a pulpit - all the CofE Churches round here do.
Here it is, complete with fire extinguisher in case the Preacher's Geneva Gown catches fire.