Discussion in 'Anglican and Christian News' started by Celtic1, Feb 4, 2013.
"There is a way which seems right to man, but the end thereof leads to death"
Except they aren't. The thing is we don't want to accept what God says so we rationalize them away because we think well that was back then and we know more now. The truth is God never changes so things that He says were bad back then are always bad, it is up to us to either obey God or stand in willful disobedience to Him
Looks like someone got their bible out. Proverbs is filled with lots of good sayings about being wise, being silent, good stuff. It's great to use when you want to make something fit your argument. My friend calls them "perfect proof-texting passages."
So you stone rebellious children, sell your daughter into slavery, and have your raped wife brought up on charges because she didn't scream loud enough? Don't be silly. The Bible is man's understanding of God...it's not God. If you worship the Bible you have bigger problems. I would hope, to high heaven, we have grown in our views of God by now. I would hope we don't think that he wants us stoning people or thinking he's filled with anger and wrath. As we understand science more we know now that the sun doesn't revolve around the earth and that not having children isn't a curse from God. My understanding of God as an adult is radically different than as a child. The whole beauty I see in the Bible is the maturity in how people who love God come to understand him more fully. You can see an evolution (forgive my using that word) in people's view and experiences of God. God is love doesn't require a church.
I'm sure I am in willful disobedience to God as YOU see it but, I don't care what you or your church sees or thinks about me. I only care what God sees and I did not ask for your spiritual guidance. So I have to conclude that you love to argue and make rash judgments about people without being invited. It's called casting pearls before swine. No worries, I do not think I am a swine, but it literally means, offering what you have to people who don't want it. Unsolicited advice is not helpful and frankly I could care less what you or anyone else believes. I don't want to change and I don't want to change anyone else. I'm not changing where I am and have no intention of becoming "conservative". So you might just want to go on with your conversation unless you like to argue. Then I can only feel sad for you and pray for you. Imagine that, the radical, feminazi bitch from hell praying for YOU.
The fundamental problem with this line of questioning is reading modern ideas back into these passages and failing to take into account the Biblical context. Biblically, rebellious children doesn't seem to be referring to your typical teenage angst and desires to leave home to be on your own, the Bible itself in the very first pages approves of the idea. It's referring to delinquent children, which are too common in our society where parents just let their children do whatever they want. Israel had a different context than modern America: children were actually raised appropriately there.
Slavery was more like involuntary servitude, basically the equivalent of a work-welfare program for poor people, and the slave had to be released during the sabbatical year (there are a lot of good ideas for helping poor people in the Law of Moses if you can get over preconceived bigotry of the Law's content). It wasn't modern slavery where people owned someone else for life. The only time it became a lifelong thing is if the slave became a member of the household, something that typifies our own relationship with God.
As far as the wife not screaming loudly enough, you are misconstruing the passage yet again. This is a test to see if the woman was actually raped, not an excuse for a rapist. If a woman showed no signs of struggle with the man she accused, then she appears to be lying. Perjuring yourself is a serious offense, especially when you are accusing someone else of a capital offense. In Mosaic Law, perjuring yourself subjected you to the same penalty to which the (wrongfully) accused would have been subject.
Something far more dangerous is the person who must agree with truth, before it becomes truth. You have set yourself as a supreme being who supercedes scripture, God's church, and 2000 years of experience and tradition. And you of all people have selected erroneous interpretations of scripture to fit your son's arguement. The GLTG community has set verses they quote, and others they run from such as Romans 1. I'm willing to accept the consistant message of the Old and New Testament.
I'm sure you see me that way. I don't actually agree with that so what's the point? I don't believe in the Bible as THE word of God so basically I don't care how you use it. It really doesn't matter to me how you see me. It changes nothing in how I feel about God, homosexuality, marriage equality, women's ordination, or anything other favorite topic of heresy and eternal damnation. Your judgement doesn't matter.
Lorrie, your mindset is nothing unique in modern society, hypocrasy reigns, truth is trampled, and self is exalted. With your self admitted spiritual confusion, overwhelming doubt, and complete denial of truth, what exactly did you expect to find on an orthodox Anglican site? You've not come to seek truth, but apparently to argue and justify your shaky position.
We're not talking about out judgment, we're talking about the Holy Scriptures judgment. It's not like we just woke up one day and decided our morality by drawing books out of a hat or because it felt nice that day. Theological liberals seem to do the latter, so it's them who are the subjectivists, and you can hear it every time the open the Bible in the pulpit and start propounding about how they feel about the plight of some interest group. Yes, everyone is influenced by subjective experiences to a certain extent, and I'm certainly no stranger to letting my feelings cloud my better judgment, but that doesn't mean there aren't good objective reasons for believing the Bible is the Word of God. One thing that stands out to me right now is that there is absolutely no consistent objective rationale for any sort of ethics without holding to Biblical doctrine.
Before someone brings up other holy books, they can easily be disproved with appeal to basic contradictions inherent in their doctrine (not just two phrases that seem contradictory on the surface) or they never even claim inspiration from a deity in the first place. For instance, Islam's Qur'an and the Standard Works of the Mormon Church both attribute inspiration to the Bible, but then assert that it has been corrupted, thus overthrowing its authority. They then assert Divine protection for their holy texts. Why would God inspire the Bible, only to let it get corrupt, retell the whole thing to some morally questionable prophet, and then infallibly preserve the words of those texts? That line of thought is not logically coherent at all.
Ok, for the third time (maybe more) this site was recommended to me after I said I wanted to visit an Episcopal Church. I had no idea what this site was about, what Anglican's believe, and I have said over and over I didn't want to do anything but be removed from the site. My position is rock solid and not at all shaky. I never said I came to seek "the truth" as you define it. I totally apologized that I was on here, not knowing what this site was about or what you believe. I came as a seeker and quickly realized I was on the write site for me. I never intended to offend or argue with anyone. I have apologized several times.
Strange, you asserted that you had a MDiv from a Methodist seminary, yet you're unsure of Anglican doctrine? I would recommend you seek out the Unitarians and their buffet of beliefs, what they don't promote, you can fill in with your own theological inventions.
Good day Ma'am.
I tell you what. How about you go to the hospital after your son has been in a car crash and his head is split open like a watermelon and you can see into his brain. See how holy you are when brain tissue is hanging out of his nose. See how it feels to have everything feel like you're underwater and hold him while you and his brothers are screaming. Watch as they shut off life support and you hold him dead in your arms and talk to me about doctrines, faith, and God. I lost my faith that day. I didn't choose to, I didn't want to, I wasn't being a bitch, it just happened to me. His death almost killed me. I left ministry because I LOVED my parishes and would never continue to serve them knowing I lost my faith. I have searched in several churches for it and never got it back. He was my oldest son and such a neat kid. We used to look at the stars together. You have no idea what it did to my heart that day when he died. I looked for others whose faith failed them. There are some, but most find comfort and solace. I couldn't and I hated myself for being a spiritual failure for years, and I repeatedly contemplated suicide. Bury your oldest child after having given birth to them and then tell me how I reject things, and don't take things seriously.
Enough of you and your arrogance. And I don't want or need pity. That's more than I wanted to say but you are awfully haughty to make your nasty judgements. I am done on here. I did get an email from an REAL Anglican. Good luck with whatever it is you espouse.
Good day sir.
Liberal ridiculous arguments. The things God still finds reprehensible are listed in His New Testament
1 Cor 6:9-11
The Bible is God's Word given by inspiration so yes God wrote the Bible, weather you believe it or not does not matter
Please don't. Your prayers do no good because you do not pray to the God of the universe but your own fantasy god. You said you don't believe Scriptures are God's Word than why play as if your a believer than and just be truthful with yourself and admit that your not a believer. A Believer accepts God's Word not just what they want.
I am truly sorry for the tragedy befallen you and your family. I'm sorry you've interpreted my honest questions and sincere faith as arrogance and pity, but I needed to know where you're coming from. While I've never buried a child, I've dealt with death and pain for 30 years as a Police Officer. I've held a dying partner in my arms while he died of a gunshot wound, another partner died in a vehicle crash, and I consoled and counseled my own son (also a police officer) after he shot and killed a murder suspect who tried to stomp him to death. I only mention this to underscore that the pain and sorrow of death touches everyone, and it was my faith that carried me through those situations. I hope you find God's peace at some point.
Some posts have been edited to reduce the discussion of people's personalities. Please discuss just the issues.
TONS of people who believe in God don't believe in the Bible. Your comments just OOZE the love of Jesus. Good job with that.
Then they don't believe in God. Jesus wasn't just loving, He also drove out the money changers and told the people that needed it what was what. You see liberals want license to do anything that pleases them without anyone saying it is wrong, that is why they hate the Scriptures and try to minimize such.
You want orthodox Christians to say it's okay as long as you say you believe but the truth is being a Christian requires obedience to God and standing against non orthodox ideas. Many say they are Christian but when it comes done to it they are just play acting because they want it their way not God's way
I can see how you would feel that way.
It's one thing to "believe in God", but something far different to believe God. The scripture records Demons as having a shallow head knowledge, but even that small amount made them tremble.