Beards, and no I’m not marrying one!

Discussion in 'Faith, Devotion & Formation' started by CFLawrence, Jun 19, 2020.

  1. CFLawrence

    CFLawrence Active Member

    Posts:
    113
    Likes Received:
    60
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Left Cath
    Leviticus 19:27, 2nd Kings 10:1, 1st Chronicles 19:4
    And the 6th OEcumenical Council 96th. canon all forbid the shaving of beards.

    I’ve decided to let mine grow, that shaving the beard is in fact sin. I know I have bigger fish to fry but this particular sin just struck me!

    what say you all?
     
  2. Shane R

    Shane R Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    555
    Likes Received:
    602
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Anglican
    My bishop encourages the clergy to wear some form of facial hair. His reasoning is that it is a testament to masculinity in an increasingly effeminate society. I amuse myself by alternating between styles. My favorite is the general Burnsides/Lemmy Kilmister. Right now I've just got the big sideburns because I got sick of sweating around the mustache portion.
     
    GreatfulAnglican and CFLawrence like this.
  3. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,141
    Likes Received:
    576
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Christian
    I don't think anyone can point to a N.T. scripture in which we are told that failing to let our beards grow, in the age of grace, is sinful.

    Act 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
    Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
    Act 15:25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
    Act 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    Act 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
    Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
    Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.


    Paul pointed out to the Apostles in Jerusalem that gentiles should not be encouraged to adopt legalisms. The Jews observed hundreds of commandments, but Jesus fulfilled the Law. Paul also wrote to the Galatians in vehement terms when they began to adopt legalisms.

    Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
    Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
    Gal 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
    Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
    Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
    Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
    Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
    Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
    Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
    Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
    Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
    Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


    The Law was given to point man toward Christ the Redeemer who was to come. In no way could man succeed in keeping all of the Law; even if he kept 99% of it, the 1% he failed to keep would condemn him. Paul said that anyone who returns to the keeping of the law as a means of earning God's favor is departing from his blessed condition and returning to a cursed condition.

    If, however, the Lord were to speak to a specific person and say, "Let your beard grow," that person should comply... assuming that he's sure it's the Lord talking and not some other spirit. I mean, not everything we think we hear comes from God.
     
    Tiffy and CFLawrence like this.
  4. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,141
    Likes Received:
    576
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Christian
    Whew! If that had come from one of the first FIVE Councils, I might have to re-think my Anglicanism! :laugh:
     
    CFLawrence likes this.
  5. CFLawrence

    CFLawrence Active Member

    Posts:
    113
    Likes Received:
    60
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Left Cath
    Rexlion! Bruh! I love you!
     
  6. CFLawrence

    CFLawrence Active Member

    Posts:
    113
    Likes Received:
    60
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Left Cath
    I’m going for a terminal beard! Grow it until it stops. But good for you being all manly with the facial hair!
     
    Shane R likes this.
  7. Symphorian

    Symphorian Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    350
    Likes Received:
    482
    Country:
    UK
    Religion:
    Anglican, CofE
    According to MacCulloch in his biography of Thomas Cranmer it was usual for clergy to be clean shaven during the late Medieval period. During the Reformation period however, reformers and reformed minded clergy deliberately grew beards as a mark of their rejection of the old religion. It was an aggressive anti-Catholic gesture that was apparently well known in mid-Tudor England.

    Whilst it might generally hold true I'm not sure that I'm entirely convinced. Cardinal Reginald Pole seemed to sport a rather luxurient beard. He was however accused of heresy and had his legatine privileges removed during his time as ABC in Mary's reign. Who knows.
     
    Cooper, Shane R and CFLawrence like this.
  8. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    1,493
    Likes Received:
    1,450
    Country:
    America
    Religion:
    Anglican
    2 Kings 10:1 does that? Have you checked?
    1st Chronicles 19:4 does that? Have you checked? I’d wager quite a bit that the Council does not such thing either, and you are pulling these weird doctrines from some heretical dark corners of the Internet.

    Cutting one’s hair is is not and has never been a sin for gentiles. The ceremonial and judicial parts of the Mosaic Law are not binding, and was so decided at the First Council of Jerusalem.
     
  9. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,141
    Likes Received:
    576
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Christian
    I must confess, in the past I have grown a beard for religious reasons. I am religious about keeping my face warm in winter. :halo:
     
  10. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Active Member

    Posts:
    285
    Likes Received:
    89
    Country:
    New Zealand
    Religion:
    none
    I'm not sure about this. In England there is (or maybe was) a Canon law about clergy wearing beards. I'm not certain but I think the law forbade beards as Rowan Williams appears to be the first A. of Cant. to have one (possibly illegally) since about 1633. Hopefully someone can enlighten me on this issue.
     
  11. Symphorian

    Symphorian Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    350
    Likes Received:
    482
    Country:
    UK
    Religion:
    Anglican, CofE
    I think in Roman Canon Law there were restrictions in terms of hair styles and beards. I'm not aware of restrictions in CofE Canon Law although the 1603 Canons addressed attire and behaviour. (I like the bit in the 1603 Canons prohibiting the wearing light coloured stockings.) The current Canons address attire.

    After the death of Henry VIII ++Cranmer grew a long beard. There's an anonymous portrait of him in Lambeth Palace with a long beard and Foxe's Book of Martyrs depicts him in the same way. By the 18th century and into the 19th century it seems that beards were out and wigs were in.

    http://johnwhitgiftsthoughts.blogspot.com/2011/07/great-beards-of-english-reformation-and.html?m=1
     
  12. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Active Member

    Posts:
    285
    Likes Received:
    89
    Country:
    New Zealand
    Religion:
    none
    Ok, I have gone back to the book I thought mentioned beards and I have got it slightly wrong. It is actually moustaches that was mentioned. Gavin Stamp in his part of the book "The Church in Crisis. A critical assessment of the current state of the Church in England" writes of Anglican church services he attended "The sermon was delivered by the curate, Fr Bugby, who sported a luxuriant moustache, despite this form of facial hair being prohibited by Canon Law" and also "The service was taken by the second curate, Fr Young who, like the deacon, sported an uncanonical moustache".
    Unfortunately Stamp doesn't give any references to the relevant Canon Law.
    So enjoy your beards but perhaps not your Roman Williams type moustaches.
     
    Symphorian and CFLawrence like this.
  13. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Active Member

    Posts:
    285
    Likes Received:
    89
    Country:
    New Zealand
    Religion:
    none
    Gosh thanks for the like on my last post, the ink hadn't even dried on my screen:D
     
  14. CFLawrence

    CFLawrence Active Member

    Posts:
    113
    Likes Received:
    60
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Left Cath
  15. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,141
    Likes Received:
    576
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Christian
    Ooookaaay.... so if I were in prison and I dropped the soap, I would want to have a beard for protection.... :loopy: LOL

    My son seriously dated a Russian Orthodox gal, but they broke off the relationship when he refused to convert to RO and she wouldn't budge, either.
     
  16. CFLawrence

    CFLawrence Active Member

    Posts:
    113
    Likes Received:
    60
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Left Cath
    Did she have a beard?
     
  17. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,141
    Likes Received:
    576
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Christian
    No beard, :D but I think she would have put a figurative nose ring on my son (to lead him around) if she'd married him.
     
  18. CFLawrence

    CFLawrence Active Member

    Posts:
    113
    Likes Received:
    60
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Left Cath
    They were unevenly yoked!
     
  19. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,200
    Likes Received:
    400
    Country:
    UK
    Religion:
    CofE
    What hair you may have covering your face or not, having shaven it off, (as far as Leviticus 19:27 is concerned) is irrelevant and not in any way sinful, even for any utterly legalistic faithless Pharisee.

    Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times. Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord. Lev.19:26-28.

    It’s the corners of your beard and skinhead haircuts that are discouraged; and sensible, spirit filled Christians should ask themselves “Why should that be so”? Particularly since the very next verse prohibits tattooing any parts of your body or what we would call ‘self harming’ by cutting oneself in the flesh.

    Lev.19:19-30 prohibits adultery, child sacrifice, perverted sexual acts, consuming blood, bestiality (probably a hangover from pagan animal cults) and cutting and marking oneself in rituals and seances to raise or benefit the dead. These were all part of the indescribably debased religions of Canaan. Lev.19:27 probably prohibits a pagan practice of offering of hair from certain parts of the head and face, to the dead, to maintain their life in the spirit world, since Lev.19:28 (cutting and marking), has exactly that purpose , partly that the flowing blood may keep the ghosts alive and partly that the tattoo-memorial may preserve their memory. Some primitive tribes still have similar rituals to venerate the dead.

    Not knowing any Canaanite voodoo rituals, (or any others for that matter), is commendable for Christians. However being afraid to shave in case one may offend God by so doing is foolish in the extreme and displays a lack of faith in God’s Grace and a singularly ignorant view of God’s character, personality and fatherly care for his children.

    How can anyone imagine that God is remotely bothered about whether you grow a beard or not.

    What kind of ‘control freak’ do you think God is?

    As to the other two references you quote, I can only guess you have a very different bible than I have because there is absolutely nothing in either of those quotations that has even anything to do with beards. Did you quote the right verses?

    2 Kings 10:1

    1 Chron. 19:4. This is not about shaving beards. Your buttocks are entirely the other end my friend. :laugh:
    .
     
    Rexlion and CFLawrence like this.
  20. CFLawrence

    CFLawrence Active Member

    Posts:
    113
    Likes Received:
    60
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Left Cath
    Canon 96, council in Trullo.

    Those who by baptism have put on Christ have professed that they will copy his manner of life which he led in the flesh. Those therefore who adorn and arrange their hair to the detriment of those who see them, that is by cunningly devised intertwinings, and by this means put a bait in the way of unstable souls, we take in hand to cure paternally with a suitable punishment: training them and teaching them to live soberly, in order that having laid aside the deceit and vanity of material things, they may give their minds continually to a life which is blessed and free from mischief, and have their conversation in fear, pure, [and holy ]; and thus come as near as possible to God through their purity of life; and adorn the inner man rather than the outer, and that with virtues, and good and blameless manners, so that they leave in themselves no remains of the left-handedness of the adversary. But if any shall act contrary to the present canon let him be cut off.

    No one has quoted it yet so I thought I would share!