Discussion in 'Navigating Through Church Life' started by Lowly Layman, Feb 16, 2014.
My vote is Lutheranism
I've also opted for Lutheranism, but it hardly exists in England. We do have two Lutherans on our Parish Electoral Roll, one Finnish, one German.
When I'm on the Continent and there's no Anglican church around (which there usually is), I sometimes go to a RC church and take communion there.
Touring around Zulu land in S.Africa and it being Sunday I attended the Church there, an historic one that was burnt down in 1879 during the Zulu War!* It was Lutheran and had a Zulu congregation. Stood outside was a small group of white teenagers, who by their pale skins, (same colour as mine) literally waiting to see what would happen. The congregation started to arrive an hour early, nicely dressed, washed and combed just as we meet at home. They were polite and self affacing. Then, a series of women came, dressed in black suits or dresses, they came as individuals and were for the most part young, to late middle age. Immediately the first lady went in there was a noise of furniture being moved or tidied. Then a tall slim middle age woman came and there was an instsnt push to get things done and the church was swept and cleaned, the teenagers were shy and stumbled about outside wondering what was happening and what they should do. Just like our churches at home the first of the residents in got the seats of their choice. Suddenly the smartly dressed ladies in their neat and attractive uniform black and white all moved around rounding up the front pews, or at least the people who had taken them and the pews were exchanged for some recently varnished., still stood there looking like sheep what were WE all going to do the English were lost!?
Suddenly, the ladies came around us and invited us inside to worship and stressing how pleased they would be.
It was amazing! The congregation ,about 100, all pressed around us and guided us to our seats at the front, on the front row in fact. The Mass Books were in Zulu, which worried me, after all these years I'd only just managed to make my way in English., but everyone of us got a copy as well as the Zulu Hymnal.
Then the Lutheran Priest arrived, he was approached by the lady and coming over to the visitors, welcomed us again. I was invited to give the sermon and one of the teenagers gave a short talk. Everyone of the visitors was given a mentor ,not always able to speak English, but well able to point where we were in the books.
In the 40's it was frowned on at Church, to visit separated congregations and apart from my sisters wedding, (Baptist,) this was the first Lutheran or indeed foreign church I'd been in , apart from a methodist day trip I'd been on 1n 1938.
I was taught a lesson in good manners and christian behaviour .
Having said all this, I wouldn't join any separated Church . When the crunch came, for leaving the C.of E, I was about to join the Western Orthodox until I met a priest from the A.C.C., and have never looked back since!
Anglican as they come!
I attended a Methodist service when I was at University around 1965. I was not impressed. It reminded me of Parson Woodford's coment, "very low stuff".
Are you implying that the "ACC" is somehow more Anglican than the CofE? If so, how did you reach that conclusion?
Western Orthodox! If not where do we go wrong? What are we missing out on? We have antiquity on our side .
We hold to Christ's Revelation, Scripture and Councils? The Faith!We have Apostolic Orders and have accepted the Creed of Niceae since it was first published, yet we find many of our own believers lacking in faith.
Where do you think we have gone wrong? We claim to be a Communion within the Body of Christ, yet we seem afraid to proclaim it openly. What do we see ourselves as >
When I talk about Anglicanism as Orthodoxy, I'm taking about the Church, or our Communion within the whole, not about wearing stove pipe hats or long beards , but of holding the ancient faith, not as us as individuals but collectively within the Anglican Church.
If you're purporting to answer my question ("ACC" more Anglican than the CofE) then you're doing so in a fairly oblique way.
Where do I think "we" have gone wrong? Well, if by "we" you mean the CofE, I'm not sure that we have gone that "wrong", but we have probably been guilty of complacency. Specifically, we could have done a lot better with regard to financial management and, in particular, press and public relations. We should have established more voluntary aided secondary schools when the chance arose in the 1940s. We should also have a bit more discipline, without unduly compromising our broad church principles.
Gone wrong? We've gone awry with, or through ,lack of teaching.Look at the discussions on various boards about Anglicanism! We have schools aplenty, but in what are they anglican? Where is there any depth in our teaching. We hold everything, more or less, as Orthodoxy, but there's a smart difference between the knowledge of the Orthodox Easterners than the average Anglican Child. At a discussion last year and I was embarrassed to hear one of the Anglican Clerics tell a group of parishioners , that Anglican Orders were no good out of England and couldn't be compared with Roman Ones. At the school just above me, when asked about the Prayer Book the curate went red and told my next door neighbour's child to ask me, because the Curate didn't know. Later he told me that he and his colleagues had not been taught about the prayer book. I was on the board of Governors at a local C. of E. School. I suggested that the major Saints Days be celebrated at before School. That Anglican Children attend Church before School if they attended schools at distance. No problems with children or parents, no complaints at all.From headmasters ,teachers and Priests a volume of discontent.
So is the "Anglican as they come" "ACC" planning a church school in Romney Marsh? Probably no need since St Peter's CofE Primary at Folkestone is quite close.
How many Church schools are there in England? What Do you think that the purpose of Church Education is?
Do you believe that we get a theological return on the money Anglicans spend on education.
It is the responsibility of the Community to promote education of the three RRR' variety and the Church to Promote Christian values. The majority of Anglican School Children do not get the Religious/Ecclesiastical
teaching that they or their parents have a right to expect. At S.Peter's just below where I am, more time is spent on teaching about the Sects (Or, 'The Faith's ,' as it is described.) than it is about either Church or Faith.
Anglicanism is closest to . . .
Are we talking liturgy or theology?
however you wish to talk...
All this is to be found on the CofE website, I imagine. But if you are saying that religious education could be improved in CoE schools, you're probably right. As I've said before, the CofE has other failings, too. But none of them has ever made me think of leaving.
Is there really an inappropriate apostrophe in "Faith's"? That would be most worrying. If you give me the link I can try to point it out.
It isn't the quality of Anglican schools that I'm complaining about. At least not in the RRR, section, It is the religious training that gripes me.
They should produce Anglicans , they don't.
As to the place of the apostrophe, I didn't even know there was one put there by me!
I voted for Methodism. They both teach prima scriptura, they both have low views of the Eucharistic elements (compared to Orthodoxy or Lutheranism), and they both teach non-Calvinistic views of soteriology. They don't teach Total Depravity either I think like Lutheranism does.
In liturgical form they are probably close to Lutheranism, but due to Lutheran views of Eucharist, I suppose even there in some ways in terms of "sacred space" they are closer to Methodist.
Why did so many people vote that it was closest to Lutheran over Methodism?
Here is a side by side comparison with the three: