Anglicanism during the Reformation

Discussion in 'Theology and Doctrine' started by DeusExMachina, Jul 28, 2016.

  1. DeusExMachina

    DeusExMachina Member

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    Let me start out by saying I am quite aware that Anglicanism is connected to the reformation. Had the continental reformers not broken with Rome and charted protestant theological statements, the Church of England and her sisters around the world would not have the fullness of the faith. It is also very true that the continental reformers (particularly Martin Bucer and Heinrich Bullinger) influenced Cranmer a great deal as he set about reforming the Church.


    However, it astounds and even vexes that many very low church "Evangelical" Anglicans make claims that there is no meaningful difference between continental reformed churches and the Anglican Church, or that Canterbury is only "Geneva with Bishops." A statement like that, in my view, either shows a lack of understanding of what Anglicanism is ( a via media between Lutheranism and Calvinism), or betrays an agenda that wishes to turn Anglicanism into something it is not and never has been, much like extreme Anglo-Catholics (not to be confused with high churchmen) try to make Anglicanism " Popeless Roman Catholicism."

    In fact, I would like to make a point of listing all of the areas in which Anglicanism breaks with Calvin and Zwingli. Firstly, and most importantly, I think, is that true Anglican worship is both wholly liturgical and sacrament-centered, whereas that of continental (reformed) churches is neither. Second, although early English reforms were heavily influenced by Calvinist soteriology, and many Anglicans hold to at least 4 points of Calvinism today, the fact is that what is commonly called "5 point Calvinism" has never held the status of dogma in the Anglican Church, which it has always held on the continent. Another major difference is that classical Anglicanism has always believed in Eucharistic sacrifice, which in the minds of ALL the continental reformers, including Luther, was an abomination. Lastly, there is the undeniable fact that all Anglican churches practice confirmation, a rite that was thrown out in Geneva and Zurich as soon as the reformation began.


    Lastly, I would just like to restate that I know being reformed is a key part of Anglicanisms root. But i sshould not be forgotten that first, we also have roots in pre-reformation English Church. This makes us truly catholic and apostolic, in a way that many other Protestant churches are not.
    What do you all think about this? Feel free to reply below.
     
  2. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I think you are exactly right...

    I actually don't think Calvinism even has a distinct soteriology in the first place! Nor do I know of many Anglicans who can list 4 or 5 of the Points, let alone talk about them.... The era of calvinism in the Western church has long passed and very few even know about it any longer. We do not and have never had any confessional subscription to Calvinism...

    You may point at Bullinger and Bucer, but if we look back, neither Bullinger nor Bucer were Calvinists

    The Early Reformation is shrouded in confusion, and confessional Calvinism only emerges in the ascendancy of Theodore Beza in Geneva, which had nothing to do with historic Anglicanism! By the time of Beza's ascendancy, Canterbury was in full-on ideological war against Geneva, after Beza repudiated our sacraments and episcopacy
     
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  3. Christina

    Christina Active Member

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    I thought the via media referred to the middle way between Roman Catholicism and the radical reformers?
     
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  4. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    Hi Deus, I kind of don't have a problem with this statement and I kind of do.

    I think that the strength of the Anglican Worship is that we are fed at two tables, the table of God's Word, and the table of the Holy Eucharist. In that sense I don't think we are sacrament centred alone. I have a feeling that there was a determination to keep that which was good, from both sides of the debate.
     
  5. DeusExMachina

    DeusExMachina Member

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    Of course Phillip, I meant that we are BOTH sacrament- and word centered, the latter being what makes us Protestant.I just wanted to point out that unlike many other Protestants, our worship also is built around the sacraments. I fully agree that we are "fed at 2 tables." Can I use that in my apologetics? ;)
     
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  6. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree that word centric makes a Protestant. The Mass contains both the liturgy of the word and the liturgy of the Eucharist
     
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  7. zimkhitha

    zimkhitha Active Member

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    I found the statement interesting as well. Scripture seems to have been always at the heart of Christian worship throughout all ages.. Where I am, the Roman Catholic Church seems no less "Word" centered than Anglicanism. They also seem to evangelize better.
     
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  8. Mark

    Mark Well-Known Member Anglican

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    The definition of the word protestant has changed over the last 500 years. As have many words. A buckle use to be a small shield, a targe. We get target form it and I knew buckle to be that metal clasp at the end of my belt.

    the original definition of protestant (originally) any of the German princes who protested against the decision of the Diet of Speyer in 1529, which had denounced the Reformation. Anglicans were generally not listed as protestants until the last 100 years or so. Remember, the Church of England and King Henry disliked the reformation. Henry wrote Assertio septem sacramentorum adversus Martinum Lutherum (“Declaration of the Seven Sacraments Against Martin Luther”), Pope Leo X gave him the title Fidei Defensor or Defender of the Faith. This was in 1521. Every English King or Queen has carried this title. Her Majesty Elizabeth II has it. Though I think Prince Charles has mentioned he may modify it by dropping the "the".

    The Swiss reformers did succeed in tainting the Anglican Church under Edward but not enough to change it from a catholic based faith. Lord knows they tried, even chopping off a Kings head and outlawing Christmas. Even the very snake belly low Anglican Church I assist in consider themselves catholic and not protestant.

    It is a mistake to think Roman does not use scripture or preach the gospel. They do about as well as others. The reformed churches threw out the sacraments and had to fill up the empty space with something. So they preach for 30-45 minutes. Time that use to be filled with the Eucharist and prayers. Coming from a Southern Baptist background I can see this very plainly. As a baptist minister, I had to preach for 30 minutes at least. I had to keep their attention, hence the preaching style of baptist preachers with stories etc in the sermon. Keep them interested. Now as an Anglican priest I preach up to 15 minutes. Found I can get the same message across in less time and I don't have to be as much of a showman. But some habits do linger!

    Possibly an interesting story: Before my first sermon as an Anglican, I was in the pulpit. I looked over the parish and said, "I was trained to preach by the Presbyterians and the Baptists. That means I can take one verse of scripture and preach on it for 45 minutes to an hour." I actually saw a couple of folks turn white and one stare at me with an open mouth in shock. I have found Eucharist and Word so much better than just the Word.

    Blessings

    Fr. Mark
     
  9. zimkhitha

    zimkhitha Active Member

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    I find the whole service (Gloria, prayers, confession, canticles...) ministering to me and even answers some theological questions I might have. Our rector is more of a teacher than a preacher. His sermon is merely a lesson on why we do things the way we do, the history of certain observances etc. His assistant, however, is more of a preacher but he still keeps it down to the 15 minutes and never preaches a sermon that does not mention the cross and the sacraments. It is enough for me, but most congregants seem to watch too much TBN therefore do not feel satisfied.
     
  10. Christina

    Christina Active Member

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    Yes, in the UK we had heard that Prince Charles might prefer the title "Defender of Faith", but he has vowed to retrain the title "Defender of the Faith" as this 2015 article from the secular society attests. The Prince has denied the long running rumours that he would change the title on becoming King.
    http://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2015/02/charles-vows-to-keep-defender-of-the-faith-title-as-king
     
  11. Mark

    Mark Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Glad to hear that. Our news media here does not always follow up.

    Fr. Mark
     
  12. Christina

    Christina Active Member

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