Anglican Options in America

Discussion in 'Navigating Through Church Life' started by Ide, Aug 4, 2017.

  1. Ide

    Ide Active Member

    Posts:
    187
    Likes Received:
    255
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Christian
    Hello,

    I have been attempting to locate a church home for the past few years. I feel that in prayer and study God is calling me to stay within the Anglican tradition for a number of reasons. My local parish I've attended is part of TEC, but under the guidance of a good bishop and priests. However, I've come to feel more and more that I can't, in good faith, join the TEC (be confirmed) due it's leftist political advocacy and teachings. That would make me feel insincere and I don't feel welcomed due my opposition to women's ordination, gay marriage etc.. I say this with no malice for TEC members, but I readily disagree with dying direction that the church has taken.

    I am also glad to say that my husband, who formerly was not exploring the Christian path, now wishes to attend church with me. I thank God for this.

    We have been exploring other options to TEC including the ACNA and an independent local Anglican congregation. We plan to visit a church this Sunday under The Anglican Province of America. Is there anyone on the board who is a member of The Anglican Province of America and can provide some insight into the group? It appears that it was an early departure from TEC in the 1960's. I will be attending mass this Sunday at 10am and am looking forward to the experience. It seems that the church is very small and there isn't much activity, however, that can be hard to determine from the website alone. Input from ACNA members or independent Anglicans are also welcomed.

    I ask for your prayers in helping my spouse and I find our church home.
     
    Anne and Peteprint like this.
  2. Ide

    Ide Active Member

    Posts:
    187
    Likes Received:
    255
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Christian
    Also, as an aside this book is for sale at the shop of AP of NA:
    https://anglicanprovince.org/shop/the-practice-of-religion/
    The Practice of Religion: A Short Manual of Instructions and Devotions Illustrated (7th Edition) By the Reverend Archibald Campbell Knowles, D.D.

    I can't find much information on this book and the descriptions are very general. Has anyone read this book and can recommend it for study? One reviewer said that it was more in the Anglo-Catholic tradition to which I feel most called.
     
    Peteprint likes this.
  3. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    725
    Likes Received:
    712
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    High-Church Laudian
    I have this book, purchased an old copy online awhile back. Very Anglo-Catholic. I am more High Church than Anglo-Catholic, but it is still a good work. You can see the whole book online here:

    https://archive.org/details/practiceofreligi00know
     
  4. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    725
    Likes Received:
    712
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    High-Church Laudian
    I am a member-at-large of the APA, since they have no parishes in my area. My Bishop, Chad Jones, is a wonderful man (incidentally, his brother is a RC priest), and while the APA is Anglo-Catholic, it suits a High Churchman like myself since it is not (from my limited experience) too Roman in orientation. They use the 1928 BCP more than missals. They have a great website!
     
    Anne likes this.
  5. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    725
    Likes Received:
    712
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    High-Church Laudian
    P.S. Another book you might like, is Vernon Staley's The Catholic Religion: A Manual of Instruction for Members of the Anglican Communion. I have a copy which I treasure.

    https://archive.org/details/catholicreligio00staluoft
     
  6. Shane R

    Shane R Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    679
    Likes Received:
    743
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Anglican
    I too will put in a good word for the APA. My own jurisdiction has a positive working relationship with them (such that my ordination took place in one of their parishes, which was graciously loaned to the OAC for the occasion.) I have met and spoken with Bp. Giffin and attended mass at St. Mary Queen of Heaven, his home parish. I have studied with APA postulants in seminary classes. And I applaud the stand that Abp. Grundorf took when the ACNA was the hot new thing and a lot of people were leaning on him to go into the alliance.
     
  7. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    1,286
    Likes Received:
    990
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Anglican (ACNA)
    I would want to urge you in favor of ACNA. Not only is it much larger and growing rapidly each year, but the independent (continuing) jurisdictions have so little growth that they're about to go extinct in the next few decades. They have had zero growth, not motivated by evangelism, just the same people seeing the same people getting older and grayer each year. The Diocese of the Holy Cross I know has had 0 ordinations and put a moratorium on all new ordinations period. I know the APA is a little better but the fact that they're so strictly regional (South-Eastern 5-6 states) shows how little they are able to spread outside of their original strongholds they were granted in the 70s/80s.

    So in short the Continuing churches present a stark contrast of rigidly limited and a dying future, while the ACNA has oodles of young ordinands and dozens of church plants every year. I would build my permanent ecclesiastical future with those who will not disappear from old age in the next two decades, which is why I'm with ACNA.

    I should also add that ACNA has all the potential of being a complete American Province, replacing TEC completely when things shake out in the coming decades. They are completely national, coast-to-coast, with links and bridges with other Anglican Provinces. The continuing jurisdictions have little/no links with other Anglican Provinces and are more interested to link with the Polish Catholic Church or the Nordic Old Catholics (or whatever). In short they don't have any interest in communion with Anglicans, they're really an Old Catholic tradition with traces of, and an origin in, Anglicanism.
     
  8. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    952
    Likes Received:
    610
    Country:
    N Ireland
    Religion:
    Traditional RomanCatholic
     
  9. Ide

    Ide Active Member

    Posts:
    187
    Likes Received:
    255
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Christian


    Great! I looking for this to see if I'd like to purchase the book. Thanks very much :thumbsup:

    I got a feeling that the church may be Anglo Catholic as they used "Mass" on their website. I am looking forward to attending- they are only a few minutes from my home. I found them by accident and totally forgot they were there until I drove by again. The parish site could use some updating and doesn't show up easily on a Google search.

    Many of the smaller, independent Anglican orders seem a bit lower church so a high church or Anglo Catholic parish close by would be wonderful.
     
  10. Ide

    Ide Active Member

    Posts:
    187
    Likes Received:
    255
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Christian
    I'm glad to hear that others have had positive experiences with APA. I was worried that they were isolated with little legitimacy. I will definitely report back after church on Sunday.
     
  11. Ide

    Ide Active Member

    Posts:
    187
    Likes Received:
    255
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Christian
    I figured as much for the smaller Anglican groups. There is an independent Anglican parish a few cities away and their only reason for existing is over a dispute with the former priest of their parish. I don't see how that will be sustainable into the future. I believe that they are aligned with the Old Catholic Church as well. I also agree that it is important to find a church that respects the Anglican tradition as an important expression of Christianity. This parish felt far more Catholic than Anglican in its approach.

    I also found that the ACNA seems to have it together far more than some of the other independent Anglican churches I've visited. I visited an ACNA church last weekend and enjoyed it and will return. I really respect what they are doing and the stand they are making against the changes withing TEC. Are they still attempting to align with Canterbury? Last time I looked into ACNA they were still working out many of the kinks of this process.

    Do you find that the ACNA is welcoming to high church folks? Most of the media I see with them seems very evangelical. Even the priest wanted us to attend a "contemporary" service next time we visit, but we declined as we like the traditional said service better. I just worry that in an effort to attract young people (younger than boomers, I guess) they will rely on the same tactics that pushed them out of the mainline churches. I suspect the idea is that young people like rock bands and not the rosary and high mass.

    When visiting their site and reading the ACNA news, I'm very impressed with their passion and growth. It really gives me hope for the future. But, for now I'm going to visit a few of the continuing parishes in my area to learn and experience a bit more.
     
    anglican74 and Peteprint like this.
  12. billn59

    billn59 New Member

    Posts:
    13
    Likes Received:
    15
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Anglican
    You can also look and see if there is an REC church in your area. They are very traditional and plan to stay that way.
     
    Peteprint likes this.
  13. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    725
    Likes Received:
    712
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    High-Church Laudian
    Hi Aidan. When I speak of High Church, I am referring to the 17th century Laudians and the High Churchmen of the 18th and early 19th centuries. They predate the Oxford Movement, though the latter claimed affinity with them often.
     
    Anne likes this.
  14. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    725
    Likes Received:
    712
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    High-Church Laudian

    I have a lot of respect for some dioceses and parishes in the ACNA but you are correct; a lot of them are evangelical low church, and many of there newest ordinands come from such backgrounds. In many ways ACNA is the TEC of the 70s and 80s,
     
    Anne likes this.
  15. Ide

    Ide Active Member

    Posts:
    187
    Likes Received:
    255
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Christian
    Can you clarify if they ordain women? I recall having seen something that they do not ordain women, but I watched a video of one church which seemed to have a female priest or perhaps she was a deacon.

    Can you clarify what you mean in that last sentence?
     
  16. Ide

    Ide Active Member

    Posts:
    187
    Likes Received:
    255
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Christian
    Thanks for the reference. Unfortunately, they are not in my state. I will keep an eye for them if I travel.
     
  17. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    725
    Likes Received:
    712
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    High-Church Laudian
    Hi Ide,

    In the ACNA it is up to each diocese to decide whether they will ordain women or not. As for the meaning of my last sentence, it seems to many that what really brought ACNA into existence was the consecration of Gene Robinson as a bishop in 2003 and the issue of gay marriage in general. Robinson was openly gay and living with a man. This was the straw that broke the camel's back for conservative elements in TEC.

    ACNA of course is more conservative than most of TEC was in the 79's & 80's, but they seem to have had no problem with women's ordination, and it took the gay marriage issue to push them over the edge. The groups that originally left TEC to form ACNA had been willing to stay in TEC as it was before the 90's.
     
  18. Ide

    Ide Active Member

    Posts:
    187
    Likes Received:
    255
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Christian

    Thanks Peteprinte, that helps clarify some of the questions I had about ACNA. It seems that a whole group of people left for important reasons, but may not have agreed on every issue in moving forward. That seems pretty human and normal to have some disagreements. I think we can have some disagreements about particular issues, but I am most concerned with how TEC seems to have set aside the Gospel of Jesus for the gospel of leftism/liberalism above all other matters.

    I think the rapid success of the ACNA shows a nice bridge between the liturgical traditions of the Anglican tradition and the power of the low church non-denominational approach which has been successful in the U.S. Do you know if they are seeking alignment with Canterbury? It seems like with enough effort they may be poised to move in a new direction and surpass TEC in membership if they are guided correctly.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
    Thomas Didymus likes this.
  19. Ide

    Ide Active Member

    Posts:
    187
    Likes Received:
    255
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Christian
    Today my spouse and I visited a church in the APA. The people were very kind and welcoming as was the priest. The service was high church and the Mass was celebrated As orientem, which I liked. The 1928 BCP was used and the music selection was uplifting, but recorded which was strange for me.

    However, the congregation was extremely small (15 people maybe?) and this was the single Mass of the day. Many of the congregants were very elderly and I believe that we were the youngest people there. The priest was affable, but his sermon was hard to follow- so I didn't get much from that. Even though the church is just minutes from my home, I don't think I could make it my regular parish. The congregation was as Anglican74 described- older and not terribly interested in reaching out beyond their current borders. There was limited or no activities outside of mass times, so I don't think it would suite my needs. But, I would attend again for another chance as they are just in the neighborhood.

    I am thankful that my husband decided to take Holy Communion with me this Sunday. Normally he only sits and observes the entire service, but spontaneously got up and received with me this morning. It felt very nice and brought us closer together at the service. Praise God!

    Next week we will be visiting an independent Anglican church which, I think, is aligned with the Old Catholic church.
     
    anglican74 likes this.
  20. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    1,286
    Likes Received:
    990
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Anglican (ACNA)
    Well as Peterprint has been saying there's a difference between being High Church and being Anglo-Catholic, i.e. between a high Anglican understanding of doctrine and things like saying the rosary which few young people would resonate with...

    I've found that the youth strongly resonate with a hardline Anglican perspective. The more counter-cultural you can make Anglicanism, the better... A strong stand on the family, a high doctrine of the sacraments (ie. the one taught by the Prayer Books, and not the one taught by Billy Graham et al), a high doctrine of marriage, a high doctrine of moral virtue, a high doctrine of the vestments (no suits), a high doctrine of the liturgy (ad orientem, bowing, altars and altar rails, etc)...

    All these things are deeply fascinating to the youth of the present. The older evangelicals think the youth seek guitars, but really what they're in the church for is to escape from guitars. We would serve them well to present them with authentic Anglican tradition and not watered-down evangelicalism.
     
    Ide, Aidan and Shane R like this.