Anglican Catholics and Western Rite Orthodox and Ordinariates, oh my.

Discussion in 'Church Strands (Anglo-catholics & Evangelicals)' started by Signum.Crucis, Nov 14, 2023.

  1. Signum.Crucis

    Signum.Crucis New Member

    Posts:
    8
    Likes Received:
    4
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Discerning Christianity
    Hello everyone. I hope all of you are doing well.

    I'm in a bit of a weird situation. I've been looking for The Church™ since I was around 27 years old. I just turned 45. I'll go through these periods where I intently search and pray and read, only to get really despondent and slink back into the shadows of Agnosticism.

    Once again, here I am, lost in the woods and trying to find my way.

    I'm in a weird place where I'm pulled towards the East and the West. I'm one of the few people that have multiple rites of multiple churches within 100 miles of me.

    I have an Anglican Catholic Church near me (St. Francis of Assisi, G-3 Communion). I've attended two services and, while the church is small, the service is very lovely and the people are nice.

    The church itself doesn't hold to the 39 Articles except to say that they're part of its historical patrimony. I read through Bishop Haverland's book on the Anglican Catholic Church.

    I can't figure out why it (the G-3 Communion) wants to do its own thing and not just become Western Rite Orthodox or Ordinariate Catholic. The only thing I picked up on from the book that would put it at odds with Orthodoxy is that it can venerate post-schism Western saints like Francis of Assisi. There would be much more that would put it at odds with Rome.

    Do any of you have opinions on Continuing Anglican churches? Are they Anglican-in-Name-Only since they dismiss the 39 Articles and hold to the Affirmation of St. Louis instead?

    Sorry to ramble. I'm having a hard time focusing on one thing these days.
     
  2. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    4,164
    Likes Received:
    2,105
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Christian attending ACNA
    Welcome! I can't answer your question directly, but I do have a comment: the name over the door is less important than what is in your heart.

    We need to believe that we are hopelessly lost in sin without the atoning/redemptive loving act of Jesus Christ on the cross. And we need to believe that he died and rose from the dead for us (for you, for me) so that we would be restored to peace with God through faith in Him. Although Jesus never sinned, our heavenly Father tallied our sins to Jesus' account and He carried them on the cross. He took our punishment for us, if we believe in Him. The other side of this divine exchange is that the Father will tally His righteousness to our account; we receive saving grace, through faith in Christ (and not through anything we can do to earn it, because we cannot). When we truly trust in Jesus' atonement for the forgiveness of all of our sins, the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us and regenerate our human spirits, so we are enabled by God to do the works He has planned for us to do (and we do them as humble servants doing our duty, not for personal gain).

    When you are following the leading of the Holy Spirit, you can ask Him where he wants you to attend, and He will lead you in that direction! :yes:
     
    Tiffy, David and Br. Thomas like this.
  3. Br. Thomas

    Br. Thomas Active Member

    Posts:
    198
    Likes Received:
    143
    Country:
    U.S.A.
    Religion:
    Anglican Catholic
    Welcome. For your information....Archbishop Haverland will be presiding over Mass on November 26th at Saint Francis of Assisi ACC, in Gainesville GA.
    I am quite sure he would be happy to have you direct any questions to him personally. After the New Year, he will be administratively in-charge of Saint Francis. The current priest, Rev. Canon Bader, will be splitting his time between Saint Francis in Gainesville and the parish of Fr. McElveen, beginning January 1st. He will be at Saint Francis two Sundays per month and the other two Sundays will be covered by Archbishop Haverland or Rev. Canon Foggin, former parish-priest at Saint Francis.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2023
  4. Signum.Crucis

    Signum.Crucis New Member

    Posts:
    8
    Likes Received:
    4
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Discerning Christianity
    Thanks for the reminder. I was there when they made this announcement. I won't be able to attend due to work. Maybe I can email him or something.

    I wish they still had services during the week.
     
  5. Br. Thomas

    Br. Thomas Active Member

    Posts:
    198
    Likes Received:
    143
    Country:
    U.S.A.
    Religion:
    Anglican Catholic
    I do have the e-addresses of the Rev. Canon Bader, Archbishop Haverland and Rev. Canon Foggin. If you wish, I can forward them to you.
     
  6. Shane R

    Shane R Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    1,168
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Anglican
    Because when they go over it's considered a conversion rather than a transfer and all of the clergy are laicized. There is a process for re-ordination but it is no guarantee that a particular person will receive approval.
     
    Br. Thomas likes this.
  7. Signum.Crucis

    Signum.Crucis New Member

    Posts:
    8
    Likes Received:
    4
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Discerning Christianity
    Ah, I didn't think about that. I thought priests and bishops that have recognized apostolic succession were grandfathered in.
     
  8. Signum.Crucis

    Signum.Crucis New Member

    Posts:
    8
    Likes Received:
    4
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Discerning Christianity
    Thank you but I don't want to randomly email these guys without having introduced myself in person. I'll just wait until I catch them at a good time.
     
    Br. Thomas likes this.
  9. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    3,273
    Likes Received:
    1,589
    Country:
    UK
    Religion:
    CofE
    How well do you know the parables of Jesus the Christ? I ask this because they contain at least 90% of the discipleship teachings of our Lord so it's very important that we, his followers should know them.

    It is a serious mistake to think it may be possible, in this world, to join a church which is filled only with servants of Christ, doing His will and being perfect like our heavenly Father is perfect.

    It is a mistake to think of oneself as a potentially good ear of wheat looking for a field to grow in that is all 100% wheat, with not a single weed in sight. The way Christ has designed the Kingdom is to plant His wheat stalks in amongst the tares, where they have to compete and out-produce the wicked in works that bring glory to God. "let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven."

    Stop looking for a field 100% full of wheat to get planted in, there wouldn't be room there for the likes of you, and just go to the nearest 'field' to where you live. See how well you grow in that field before wasting you life, searching the world for a perfect field that really doesn't exist anywhere on earth. The grass always looks greener to sinners like us, on the other side of the farm.

    There is a huge amount of scism making time and effort put in by churchy organisations, trying to sell themselves as 100% wheat, to tender young shoots as 'perfect fields for the poor inexperienced suckers to grow in'.
    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2023
    Br. Thomas and Rexlion like this.
  10. Shane R

    Shane R Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    1,168
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Anglican
    Therein lies the issue: no one in the G3 has Apostolic Succession recognized by Rome or the canonical Orthodox churches. By Old Catholics and non-Canonical Orthodox, sure. But this has been tried and failed.

    Bishop Watterson, one of the original 4 bishops from the Denver consecrations, went to Rome and gave up his bishopric. More recently Steven Reber, sometime presiding bishop of the UECNA, went to Rome as a layman. Gavin Ashenden- and that's all I'll say about that chap.

    Study the 21st century of the ACA. They were deeply involved in the formation of the Personal Ordinariate and saw most of a diocese depart. The bishop, whose name eludes me this morning, was so daft he had delusions of receiving a Cardinal's hat. He didn't even get approval for re-ordination.
     
    Br. Thomas likes this.
  11. Signum.Crucis

    Signum.Crucis New Member

    Posts:
    8
    Likes Received:
    4
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Discerning Christianity
    That's very unfortunate. I was under the impression that their orders were considered valid, at least by the Orthodox.

    I guess that's where I'll go then. If I happen to get the Anglican itch, I can always swing by the Church of the Advent Western Rite Orthodox in Atlanta.

    Thanks for the help.
     
  12. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,713
    Likes Received:
    998
    Religion:
    ACNA
    I see them not recognizing our orders as basically a political power play.
     
    Br. Thomas likes this.
  13. Signum.Crucis

    Signum.Crucis New Member

    Posts:
    8
    Likes Received:
    4
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Discerning Christianity
    In the case of Rome, I would agree. In the case of the Orthodox, I don't think it's the same thing. From what I've read, they've always seemed to be way more receptive to Anglican orders.
     
  14. Shane R

    Shane R Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    1,168
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Anglican
    They have their own issues to work through. There is no desire or energy to sort through the various minuscule Anglican splinter groups and make a judgment on the validity of their orders. You might find individual bishops who have some interest and sympathy (such as Metropolitan Jonah Paffhausen) but there is no synod that is going to take that step.
     
    Br. Thomas likes this.
  15. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    4,164
    Likes Received:
    2,105
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Christian attending ACNA
    I wish there were some way to require all clergy who contemplate swimming the Tiber to first consult with one or two people who've been there and who subsequently crossed in the other direction. Personally, I could give them an ear full. :no::no::no:
     
    S. DeVault, Shane R and Br. Thomas like this.