The Promised Land

Discussion in 'The Commons' started by Botolph, Apr 15, 2024.

  1. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    With the intensity of political opinion of late, it is difficult to have a sensible conversation on this subject.

    The text of the promise I guess starts here.

    Genesis 17:1-8 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said to him, ‘I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be blameless. And I will make my covenant between me and you, and will make you exceedingly numerous.’ Then Abram fell on his face; and God said to him, ‘As for me, this is my covenant with you: You shall be the ancestor of a multitude of nations. No longer shall your name be Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you the ancestor of a multitude of nations. I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you. I will establish my covenant between me and you, and your offspring after you throughout their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you. And I will give to you, and to your offspring after you, the land where you are now an alien, all the land of Canaan, for a perpetual holding; and I will be their God.’​

    The Nation State of Israel makes much of this promise today. They are there because of the resolution of the United Nations, and the pressure of the course of history, the work of the United Kingdom, and Germany in promoting Jewish immigration to the area. Many of those involved no doubt saw something of this divine imprimatur based on this text.

    Sequentially in the text this follows the birth of Ishmael and precedes the birth of Isaac, who in turn was to become the father of Jacob/Israel and of course Esau.

    Abraham subsequently married Keturah and had further children Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah.

    I might add there is a very untidy account of how the birthright of Esau came into the possession of Jacob.

    The question I would like to consider sensibly is if the Promised of the Land of Canaan was an exclusive promise to the children of Israel or an inclusive promise to all the descendants of Abraham.

    (NB: the land of Canaan did not include Philistia, which on contemporary maps is pretty close to the Gaza Strip)
     
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  2. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Well-Known Member

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    I see the land of the Canaanites being given to the descendants of Abraham. And as God says "You shall be the ancestor of a multitude of nations." I see no promise that Israel will be the one of that multitude that gets Canaan. Don't all Muslims claim to be descendants of Abraham?
     
  3. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure about 'all Muslims', however, I think that Mohamud made some claims about descendency from Ishmael. I am unclear as to whether that was for himself, or the Arabian nations generally. There is certainly a wide range of Semitic people in the area (generally understood as the descendants of Shem) which means that several leaders and others around the world have used the term 'anti-semitism' in a very confusing way.

    Islam is classed as an Abrahamic Religion, in company with Judaism and Christianity. There are of course more, including the Samaritans.

    The 'religious' side of Islam is in some sense distinct from the 'geo-political' face of Islam. The same might be said of Christianity and the Holy Roman Empire, and Judaism and the Nation State of Israel. In each case, there is both distinction and correlation. In the contemporary climate Christians are more inclined to speak of a kingdom of hearts and minds, and to speak of the vulnerability or power and the power of vulnerability.
     
  4. Nevis

    Nevis Member

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    God promised a land that was already inhabited.

    So to get it, the Israelites had to conquer it first.

    So they destroyed Jericho, killed all the men, and enslaved the women and children …. by order of God .,..

    what kind of a kind God was that?
     
  5. Nevis

    Nevis Member

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    Any answer to this.?
     
  6. Nevis

    Nevis Member

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    You know the story of Jericho?
     
  7. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    Presumably, most people in this forum will have some awareness and familiarity with the story of Jericho, however, the story is at best tangential to the matter raised in the opening post.

    It is a fairly significant question, in light of the events that are happening in the region at the moment.
     
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  8. Nevis

    Nevis Member

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    it has become new significance