I didn't pay attention in Sunday school

Discussion in 'New Members' started by Logan^B, Aug 30, 2021.

  1. Logan^B

    Logan^B New Member

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    Who were the 12 tribes of Israel???

    Wasn't it something to do with European countries

    Isn't it sacrilegious to read a rewritten copy of the Old testament that mentions clearly each individual nationality?
     
  2. Ananias

    Ananias Well-Known Member Anglican

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    The 12 tribes of Israel were named after the 12 patriarchs (sons of Jacob) who were part of the Hebrew exodus out of Egypt. Each Patriarch's clan (tribe) were granted by God parcels of land in the Promised Land (Canaan). When the tribes decided they wanted a King (Saul, then David, then Solomon) to unify the tribes, the various parcels of land were unified into the nation of Israel. You can read this story in the 1-2 Samuel and 1-2 Kings (and 1-2 Chronicles in a more abbreviated, and more upbeat, form).

    After the reign of Solomon, the unified kingdom fractured almost immediately into the northern part (Israel) and the southern part (Judah). In 722BC or thereabouts, the Assyrians under Tiglath Pileser III conquered Israel and deported the populace of what would later be known as Samaria, replacing them with Mesopotamian people (which is why Samaritans and Jews were hostile to each other all the way into the time of Jesus). In 597 BC or thereabouts, the Babylonian empire under Nebuchadnezzar II conquered Judah; a few years later, the Babylonian King conquered Jerusalem itself, destroyed the Temple, and exported the remnant of Israel to slavery in Babylon. The nation of Israel essentially ceased to exist at that point.

    After Persia conquered Babylon, the persian King Cyrus allowed the Jews to re-enter their homeland via the Decree of Cyrus in 539BC. They were to rebuild the temple and Jerusalem around it (read Ezra and Nehemiah for details). But this rump state of Israel never really cohered as a political entity, and it was ultimately subsumed first under the Greeks (after Alexander's conquests around 330BC) and then the Hasmoneans, and then finally the Romans.

    Jesus Christ was of the line of David, the tribe of Judah.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2021
  3. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Well-Known Member

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    You may have in mind "British Israelism", the theory that the British are descended from the ten "lost tribes"of Israel. This movement had its heyday in the latter half of the 19th Century. I think there are still a few individuals and churches that believe this, but no one with any stature in academia.

    Of course my view is the British are descended from selected breeding of the finest physical specimens and the most intelligent people throughout history.:whistle:
     
  4. ZachT

    ZachT Well-Known Member

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    The 12 tribes are the descendents of Jacob through his four wives: Asher, Benjamin, Dan, Gad, Issachar, Judah, Levi, Naphtali, Reuben, Simeon, Zebulun and Joseph. Joseph would be treated as the firstborn son, receiving twice the inheritance, and so his tribe would be split into two tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh (Joseph's two sons). People sometimes leave out Levi, so the number remains 12, and the Book of Revelation leaves out Dan and replaces Ephraim with Joseph.

    As Ananias said, after the lawless period of Judges, the 12 tribes unified under King Saul, then King David, then King Solomon. After Solomon's errors, the kingdom split into the Northern Kingdom (Israel) and the Southern Kingdom (Judah). The tribes of Judah and Benjamin (possibly merged into a single tribe at this point) resided in Judah, and the other 10 tribes resided in Israel. Some say Simeon also resided in Judah, and was lost during the Babylonian captivity.

    When Israel was conquered by the Assyrians, the Israelites were dispersed, and the land repopulated with Assyrians. Most of the dispersed people would lose their heritage. Some of the two tribes of Joseph and the tribe of Levi that maintained their Jewish heritage would eventually return once the Persians conquered the land and would intermarry with Assyrians, becoming the Samaritans. Because they were dispersed and integrated into various different nations these ten tribes are called the "lost tribes".

    When Judah was eventually conquered by the Babylonians, the Judites were not dispersed. When the Jews were exiled from Judah, most were allowed to leave together, and so never split up and were able to maintain their culture and identity. Those that were made captives and slaves were also kept together, and maintained their traditions. When the Persians conquered Babylon, Cyrus the Great lifted the exile, and allowed the Jews to return. These remaining two tribes (Judah and Benjamin) make up the ethnic groups we call Jewish today.

    Some people erroneously claim certain cultures/ethnicities descend from those lost 10 tribes - such as the British Israelism @AnglicanAgnostic mentioned, among other movements in the US, Japan and Europe. These claims are completely disproven archaeologically, linguistically, and probabilistically. If one was to rewrite the Old Testament to link the 12 tribes to some modern ethnic group or nationality that would be sacrilege, but I wouldn't say it is sacrilegious to read the modified text critically.
     
  5. Fr. Brench

    Fr. Brench Well-Known Member Anglican

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  6. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Well-Known Member

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    I vaguely remember some African group/tribe claiming they were of Jewish descent, and everyone dismissing the idea, till Dna evidence suggested there may be some truth to their claim.
     
  7. Matthew J Taylor

    Matthew J Taylor Member

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    British Israelism is just Black Hebrew Isrealism but for white people.
    Neither movement provide a compelling account for their alternative history.
     
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  8. bwallac2335

    bwallac2335 Well-Known Member

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    I once read a book by a Catholic Historian who speculated that the Jews after the conquest of Judah married in and I believe he said absorbed many of the lost tribes
     
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  9. Matthew J Taylor

    Matthew J Taylor Member

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    Aye I think the most likely outcome of all is that the "lost tribes" are lost not because people disappeared but because the tribal identities faded over generations of intermarriage with other Hebrews and the wider Semitic peoples.
     
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