What is the Anglican view on "Christian sorcery and spellcraft"? In particular Bibliomancy?

Discussion in 'The Commons' started by DarthJupiter, Aug 21, 2018.

  1. DarthJupiter

    DarthJupiter New Member

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    already mention in my other thread on intercession that in some Roman Catholic cultures such as Mexico and Southern France, there exists local methods of spiritualism where one literally gives food offerings to Saint statues in addition to traditional Catholic novenas and prayers to extract favors and methods of communication with holy spirits such as using a pendulum in front of a photo to ask for guidance.

    Even among strict Roman Catholic who stick to strictly Church doctrines, there are systems of magic such as Benedicaria in Italy in which Holy Water is used in a typical Church manner to cure a home of negative energy and evil spirits.

    And its not jut Roman Catholics. Eastern Orthodox Christians have spells to expel what they call the evil eye, Protestants in Louisiana have methods of writing psalms on piece of paper and burning them or hiding them in a spot or some other action to earn good luck, there are Jamaican Christians who do animal sacrifices, and in the Medieval ages England had what you call Cunningfolk who did magical service.

    Some of these "magical methods" aren't technically magical at all but actually use scientific methods praised by real doctors as effective such as how Santa Muerte followers mix herbs together combined with devotions to Santa Muerte to cure someone of sore throat. Or how someone practising the hybridization of Catholicism and African paganism called Santeria defogging a home using a ritual intended to prevent diseases where the ingredients used have been scientifically proven to kill pests carrying the flu.

    Where does Anglicanism go into this? I mean even strictly Eastern Orthodox churches has prayers to cure someone of the evil eye (despite Eastern Orthodoxy forbidding divination, sorcery, and especially superstition). Not to mention actual Church doctrines has sacraments by priests officially endorsed by the Vatican to cure someone of ailments from black magic.

    Is Anglicanism too far in the Protestant alignment that its primarily science they use? Would that mean its ok to use rituals that have a scientific bases such as consulting a Mexican Curandero to mix herbs for you while calling upon archangel Michael to bless it before giving to you to heal yourself of the cold? Or is ANglicanism too steep in Protestant fundamentalism to accept even scientific ailments?

    Or does it depend on which type of parish you go to? I mean I remember reading how in India of an Anglican missionary accepting Hindu foods blessed and sacrificed to false Hindu gods and even accepting the Hindu blessings directed towards Ganesh and other local gods. He came from the Mainline Branch of Anglicanism.

    I need help here as I am very close to converting to Anglicanism!

    Would something as simple as harmless as practising Bibliomancy-which is a form of divination that uses the bible-sinful? I mean the typical practise in Bibliomancy is to close your eyes and flip through random verses in the Bible, select a page, and point your finger at a random passage. While trusting God he will communicate with you and give you advice via the random selected passage. All done while your eyes are literally closed (or even blindfolded with a cloth. Is even spellcraft directly relying on Biblical passages considered witchcraft? I even know some people who does the Bibliomancy method to predict the future in addition to seeking advice directly from God!
     
  2. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    What are the options here:
    -sorcery/ mystic bibliomancy/magic
    -Scientism

    Can we have a third option?... What if I don't believe in sorcery of any kind, but do not accept the authority of the skeptics either?
     
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  3. Isodore

    Isodore New Member

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    The disciples did cast lots to select a replacement disciple. I don’t know if this was to remove any bias in selection or they believed in some kind of divine intervention in what we math geeks call a random process.
     
  4. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    Something as simple as harmless . .

    Simple: Yes I agree one would have to be 'simple' to think that this is a legitimate method of scrying God's will and 'command for today'. The Bible is not a magic book to be used as a scrying tool, by idiots.

    Harmless: No, I do not agree that it is harmless. It could quite possibly be very harmful.

    For Example: Suppose some fervent, but superstitious believer was looking to find, from God, exactly what to do today. They put on their blindfold open their Bible towards the back, (because the New Testament is obviously going to yield better results than all those lists of names and incomprehensible food prohibitions in the Old Testament), and they stick their pin in: Matt.27:5.

    Not very useful as a 'what to do today' text, So they have another go, and the pin lands on the second sentence of Lk.10:37.

    Believing that the 'Word of The Lord' has now spoken, what does our simpleton scripture abuser do now?

    Does he "Go out and hang himself" because Jesus said "Go thou and do likewise"? :doh:

    I should hope not.
     
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  5. Religious Fanatic

    Religious Fanatic Well-Known Member

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    I've often wondered myself if things like devotionals can be used to predict certain events in your life. It seems at times that some are very general as you flip through them, and then, when you have a bad day and haven't picked it up in a while, you find that today's passage correlates with a word of encouragement for whatever you're going through, but this is by no means 'bibliomancy'. Of course, scripture is all-encompassing, applicable to a wide variety of situations. There are times when it will either be very general, or very on the mark when you are at a point where you need some inspiration for life and the passage you are reading that day speaks to you perfectly.
     
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  6. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    What you describe here though is indeed not Bibliomancy. God communicates quite naturally with us in daily events and experiences, and if we habitually read scripture offices or contemplate the faith, at a particular place and time God can use that just as any other natural event, to communicate with us.

    The difference between those sorts of 'strangely coincidental experiences' and bibliomancy is the human intent behind the act.

    With Bibliomancy the 'diviner' is the one that is supposedly getting information from God, when the 'diviner' wants it.

    With 'providence and guidance', it is God who initiates the communication and we are merely the obedient recipients of his 'messages'.

    This is why, it seems to me, that having an ordered, non chaotic lifestyle, is important. It is in that 'quietness of living' that we can best discern the 'voice' of God, in our daily experiences and spiritual activity.
     
  7. Religious Fanatic

    Religious Fanatic Well-Known Member

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    As to DarthJupiter's interest in Christian sorcery: Santeria is truly the most beautiful expression of witchcraft and the apostolic faith. With just some rather simple rituals, one can cast spells on people in the name of Jesus and Mary. It is a great example of diversity in Christian practice, and will help you build a healthy relationship with the Lord. You can also use spells to help you get a nice expensive car, a beautiful dress or golden watch, and many other things. God wants us to be happy. If it takes sacrificing a chicken to do that, then do what needs to be done. Personally, I find it extremely cute that we can consult a bunch of strange spirits for guidance. Asking God, saints, angels and other Christians to do all the work for us gets really boring after a while. As I said, we need diversity. :)
     
  8. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    @BibleHoarder and @DarthJupiter

    Yes But!

    If you think it is the Holy Spirit telling you these things are "all OK because we need diversity", then perhaps you have a scorpion instead of an egg. :) In which case I suspect it has not come from your heavenly Father. Luke 11:11-13. but from someone else.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  9. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    You should really mark it when you go full-sarcastic...
     
  10. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    I thought that too, but went for it anyway. What is the 'I'm being a total sarcastic nob emoticon anyhow'? :hmm:
     
  11. Religious Fanatic

    Religious Fanatic Well-Known Member

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    On another note, I have a crystal necklace that I use to consecrate the Shekinah glory, so that anywhere you take it, you have a special form of protection available in the crystal.

    Kabbalah and Sufi Islam also like to entertain the idea that certain lyrical cadences in the original languages of scripture can actually bring out the fullness of divine revelation by combining pretty sounding words with scriptural truths. It's connected to the idea of the aesthetics of beauty being spiritual in nature, much like when we read the masterful King James. However, as a new age Christian of the Joyce Meyers/Marilyn Hickey ilk, I do recommend trying to consecrate the Shekinah to a crystal. It might be the next trend in televangelist gifts for donations.
     
  12. Brigid

    Brigid Active Member Anglican

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    I can understand your interest in the necklace, however it does smack very loudly of superstition! That the beauty of language can have a spiritual component is an interesting idea as I do love the sound of the language in the KJV and it seems to help me spiritually, too.
     
  13. JoeLaughon

    JoeLaughon Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Superstition is to be condemned. It dethrones God.
     
  14. Fidei Defensor

    Fidei Defensor Active Member

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    Well said! My parish pastor and his successor used the same example to debunk Bibliomancy.

    I often refer to these verses regarding sorcery:

    “A number of them who had been practicing sorcery brought their incantation books and burned them at a public bonfire. The value of the books was several million dollars.” (Acts 19:19 NLT)

    “But the cowardly (deilós , an adjective derived from deidō, "fear-driven" – properly, dreadful, describing a person who loses their moral gumption [fortitude)] that is needed to follow the Lord), the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts (pharmakos), the idolaters and all liars--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." (Revelation 21:8 NIV)
     
  15. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    One great way to judge whether a practice is acceptable or not is to see whether Jesus or the apostles or the very early (1st & 2nd Century) church (1) taught people to do it or (2) did it themselves. Do we see any place in the N.T. where they taught or practiced:
    * the use of objects with alleged 'special properties,' such as crystals?
    * offering food to the dead?
    * the use of spells or rituals deemed magical by the user?
    * practicing divination?
    * getting answers from O.T. scriptures by using a scroll-based form of "bibliomancy"?
    * wearing icons as amulets to ward off evil or to bring good fortune?
    The answer is no, we do not see these things described or taught. This is a fairly decent indication that such things were not accepted as 'okay' within the early church.

    Of course, we don't have to guess at all when it comes to seeking communication with the dead, casting spells, or practicing divination. These are expressly forbidden.
    Deu 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
    Deu 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
    Deu 18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

    Not just a sin, but an abomination! Abhorrent and morally disgusting! Any time we see a practice that has even minor elements of these proscribed activities, we should avoid it. Best to err on the side of caution, right? Using magic spells sounds like it might come close to 'wizardry,' for example; if in doubt, stay away from it!

    It should be no surprise that our adversary (who seeks whom he may devour) would attempt to seduce people into relying upon things other than God (particularly the Holy Spirit who guides and helps us). The enemy would rather we learn to rely on appeasing evil spirits or trying to gain favor from friendly spirits, seeking spiritual guidance from rituals, depending on objects one thinks are 'sacred' or 'specially imbued', and so on.
    1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
    2 Corinthians 11:14 - And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light
    .

    Consider what the people who use such methods are trying to obtain by them. They want physical healing, or divine protection, or answers to prayers, or guidance to know what course of action they should take, or relief from turmoil or uncertainty. The Bible teaches us very clearly that the way to seek these things is through our relationship with the Lord (a relationship made possible by Jesus Christ, at great cost). The Lord God is our healer and our provider. The Holy Spirit is our comforter and our guide. We are supposed to rely on God directly in prayer, in meditation on His Word, in quietly waiting upon the Lord, and in maintaining our faith and trust in God to "give us this day our daily bread" (i.e., to provide for our needs as those needs arise).
    Exodus 15:26 ...I am the LORD that healeth thee.
    Philippians 4:19 ...my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
    John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
    Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

    Using a crystal is like saying to God, "I don't trust that your power is strong enough to reach me, so I'm wearing a pretty lump of stone to collect and amplify your weaky-peak power transmission." :loopy:
    Praying for assistance to Mary or to dead saints is like saying, "I don't believe that God will provide for my needs without being coaxed by someone who has more sympathy for me than Jesus has." :facepalm:
    Wearing a medallion for luck is like saying, "God's provision is not enough for me; I'd rather rely on dumb luck for my needs to be met." :doh:
    Using Bibliomancy is like saying, "I don't trust the Holy Spirit to give me guidance by talking directly to my spirit, so I will trust Him to guide my fingers as I flip the Bible and take a stab at a verse." (More likely, such a person is too lazy and impatient to wait upon the Lord for guidance.) :disgust:

    Those who engage in such practices are likely to be 'baby Christians' who do not know the Word very well and who have not learned to really trust in and rely upon God.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2019
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  16. Fidei Defensor

    Fidei Defensor Active Member

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    Well said. All I would add is this, anything that takes your eyes off Christ (Hebrews 12:2), weither it be a rule, an amulet, a practice, or etc is to be consider evil. The word “antichrist” does nof mean ‘againat christ’ it means ‘to replace christ in worship, focus and veneration.’

    We simply should beware of any practice that takes our eyes off and devotion away from Christ:

    “I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.” (2 Corinthians 11:2-3)

    “Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.” (Hebrews 12:2)

    “Yes, everything else is worthless when compared with the infinite value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have discarded everything else, counting it all as garbage, so that I could gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith. Let all who are spiritually mature agree on these things. If you disagree on some point, I believe God will make it plain to you.“ (Philippians 3:8-9, 15)
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2019