What is the future of the Episcopal Church?

Discussion in 'Navigating Through Church Life' started by anglican74, Apr 30, 2015.

  1. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

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    "Presiding Bishop", or the primate of the Episcopal Church in the United States.
     
  2. Servos

    Servos Active Member

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    Thank you!
     
  3. Mark

    Mark Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Presiding Bishop. Think Arch Bishop.

    the new one is Bishop Curry. He will continue the same. The TEc will continue to fade away as it has cut itself from the vine.

    Fr. Mark
     
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  4. zimkhitha

    zimkhitha Active Member

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    Ye those who are defenders of the faith are labelled as the schismatics. I'd assume that the label fits more with those who insist on introducing "new truths" to the faith. I do like your reference that they'cut themselves from the vine.
     
  5. Joshua119

    Joshua119 Member

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    It's a sad state, but a true one. Anyone who calls for the defense of ancient truth is rejected in favor of those who will simply do what they're told. A similar situation sprung up in the Roman Church after Vatican II, when churches that wanted to continue with their traditional practices instead of modernizing were forced to leave communion with Rome.

    The sad truth is that they only true Anglicans have been forced to exist outside of the Anglican Communion. Personally, I'm hopeful that the invitation of Abo Beach to GAFCON is signaling an acknowledgment by Canterbury that the Continuing groups are still Anglican.
     
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  6. Justin Haskins

    Justin Haskins Active Member

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    At some point, possibly when the C of E adopts a different stance on homosexuality, which I believe is inevitable, GAFCON, which represents more Anglicans than C of E and other Anglican churches, will in essence become the new Anglican Communion, IMO. In other words, two Anglican Communions will form, both claiming to be the "real" one. Liberals will continue going to the old, and orthodox will go to GAFCON (or whatever they choose to call it). In the end, as is the case in Lutheranism, Presbyterianism, etc., Anglicanism will be totally divided. The biggest difference will be, however, that they will likely stay unified on an international scale, with the vast majority of Anglicans siding with the conservatives.
     
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  7. Justin Haskins

    Justin Haskins Active Member

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    Or, to say it another way, I don't think anyone will really care what Caterbury thinks 50 years from now.
     
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  8. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    The liberal churches will have no existence beyond the next decade or two, simply by the virtue of dying out. The Epscopal Church loses about a diocese of people every single year. Think about that. The Church of England only commands the adherence of maybe 10-15% in England in actual communicant membership, not just baptism. In a few decades there will be no liberal Anglicans left in the world.
     
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  9. Padres1969

    Padres1969 New Member

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    I don't know, Curry does not seem quite as abrasive (for lack of a better term) compared to his predecessor. And he doesn't seem quite as liberal as his predecessor either. And he's clearly got a gift for preaching.
     
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  10. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    Did the Anglican Faith not "fall of the vine", when it seceded from Rome or am I missing something here?
     
  11. zimkhitha

    zimkhitha Active Member

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    T
    That's what Rome would like everyone to be believe, but I'll let my learned friends give you a more detailed and informed response.
     
  12. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    I understand that the issues are big, and confronting, but I am dismayed by our ongoing capacity to schism. And that is not simply Anglican, I noted the other day doing some research that there are six Patriarchs of Antioch. The reason why there are six is because at Vatican II Rome stopped appointing the seventh.

    as this broken bread was once many grains ...
     
  13. Lloyd

    Lloyd New Member

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    Oh yeah, I have listened to him preach a couple of times. He can preach. I don't think the Episcopal church is going to vanish any more than any other denomination is going to vanish. What I see happening is people being just as likely to leave more conservative churches as societies become more liberal and governments start passing more laws in support of liberal agendas. I have talked to a lot of Catholics that have left come to the Episcopal church over same sex relationships, the ordination of women, divorce etc.

    Personally I believe marriage is between one man and one woman, divorce is unacceptable, I pray the rosary, I believe the Blessed Virgin was the first true female bishop of the Catholic church, I light candles at our Lady of Walsingham statue and ask the Blessed Mother to intercede with Father, Son and Holy Spirit on behalf of the souls for my family and friends. I also pray an Anglican Rosary. I am pro life, all life is precious. Abortion is murder just as executing a condemned man is murder. War is only justified in defense, never to be sought. I am also a veteran. I also believe the Pope is the Bishop of Rome, he is not infallible, he is the primate of the Roman church but not the only Christian authority in this world. I see the Episcopal Church as accepting all of Gods children, as they are, without judgement just as I do not judge. My relationship with God is between me and God just as the relationship between my gay brothers and sisters is between them and God. I leave the judging to God and try to be accepting of everyone as they are, or I believe I fail as a Christian.

    I think The ACC, ACNA, ACA and TEC will all survive. We are all Christian and I think we will all follow Gods lead for us to be where ever He wants us to be. I was once a Baptist, got drunk and a brother Baptist called me a back slider and told me he would have to stop hanging with me because I was a back slider. I pointed him at Matthew:

    Matthew 22:36-40

    36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    Matthew 7:1-5

    1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

    My first post other then the introduction :) I must look like a confused mess to you folks. Thanks for reading this.
     
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  14. Swordswoman

    Swordswoman New Member Anglican

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    Hi again Lloyd, I agree with all your views. You are a vet, I honor you, I've been in the military world in different roles for most of my adult life.

    I am still learning about the politics of the worldwide Anglican/Episcopal church, so I don't have a big-picture opinion yet about where TEC is going, however I will start paying attention to this and the new Archbishop as I feel it is extremely important to the evolution or the orthodoxy of the Church as a whole. This is a good place to start!
     
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  15. Lloyd

    Lloyd New Member

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    I have been doing a lot of reading, here are some links that I have been looking at:

    The Anglican Communion website: http://www.anglicancommunion.org/
    The Episcopal Church: http://www.episcopalchurch.org/
    The Anglican Church of North America: http://anglicanchurch.net/ (Not in communion with the Anglican Communion)
    The Anglican Church in America:http://anglicanchurchinamerica.org/index.shtml (Not in communion with the Anglican Communion)
    The Anglican Catholic Church: http://www.anglicancatholic.org/ THIS WEBSITE appears to be down at the time of this posting (Not in communion with the Anglican Communion)

    And here is a wikipedia link that looks like it gives some valid historical information. I'm not sure how accurate it is, but based on my limited research it looks close. Maybe some others will have some insight.
    Continuing Anglican Movement : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuing_Anglican_movement

    Note that TEC appears to be the only Anglican church in the US that is in communion with the Anglican Communion, at least at this writing. In January there will be a meeting of 36 primates in the Anglican Communion with the Archbishop of Canterbury. Additionally the Archbishop of the Anglican Church of North America, Archbishop Beach has also been invited. So we'll see what the outcome of that is.

    http://www.anglicanjournal.com/articles/welby-calls-for-primates-meeting-in-2016

    The Anglican Communion has been breaking apart and splitting since 1976 when TEC started ordaining women. That is also when I first left the Episcopal Church and started attending Baptist and non-denomination churches and then I left all churches all together.

    Since then splits have occurred for various reasons, the biggest recent one was the ordination of a gay bishop in New Hampshire that was in an active same sex relationship when he was ordained. Other smaller splits have occurred as well. The next possible large split will be because TEC is allowing same sex marriage and is proposing modifications of the 1979 Book of Common Prayer to deal with same sex marriage.

    So the Anglican Communion has a lot of diversity, but seems to be polarizing with African Churches taking the most extreme views to the point of supporting some Government laws to imprison practicing homosexuals to the TEC who wants to marry them.

    I am far from being a scholar on any of this, but I love history and now that I am back with the Episcopal Church, I am fascinated with how we got to this point in our church history.

    God Bless you all
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2016
  16. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    The problem with that argument is that many Primates dispute the veracity of this statement. They define the Anglican Communion as Provinces who are in conformity with Anglican orthodoxy.
     
  17. Lloyd

    Lloyd New Member

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  18. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    The Anglican World is undergoing tumult as you know. Things are shifting rapidly. The Gafcon primates do list ACNA as an Anglican Church for north america. Meanwhile the TEC is excluded. No Gafcon or even larger Global South Primate has anything to do with TEC. This means that 70-80% of the Anglican world do not consider TEC to be Anglican.
     
  19. Lloyd

    Lloyd New Member

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    Hi Again, Thanks. I just found Gafcon site, the ACNA was just recognized by them a couple of weeks ago. I think that is great news. I read a post earlier that a prior poster made about a split that could create a more liberal Anglican Communion of the TEC and others, then a conservative Anglican Communion based on Gafcon which is more conservative and orthodox. With Archbishop Beach representing ACNA at the primates meeting in a couple of weeks I am sure there will be a lot of interesting news coming. As I emailed my priest, we Anglicans/Episcopals, liberal and conservative do appear to be able to shake things up on a regular basis.

    Perhaps a split is the best thing that can happen for all of us, and we will all pray and ask for God's guidance as to where we belong. I love my little Episcopal parish and the people that have accepted my wife (even though she is Buddhist) and I as part of their church family. That I enjoy my parish and enjoy worshiping with them , that I feel God in the church and I see Christ in the Eucharist is far more important to me right now than whether or not the person sitting next to me, worshiping with me, is gay. I am willing to let God judge us and expect that He will lead me where He wants me to go when the time comes. I also enjoy going to the Catholic Church just down the street when I get the chance. I guess I am still on my faith journey, one I hope never ends as I look for a deeper bond with the Father, Son, Holy Ghost and the Blessed Mother.


    God Bless you.....
     
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  20. Rev2104

    Rev2104 Active Member

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    The whole christian church seems to be in such a mess. Denominations are turning into an endless list of alphabetic soups. These fractions at least it seemed to start out with legitimate disagreement with the direction the parent church was going. Christianity has for a long time becoming less biblical and less recognizable as Christianity. Gay Marriage, women priests, divinity of Christ ETC. These should not be arguments in the christian church, but as the western world has been circling the bottom of the toilet most of Christianity is flowing along with it.
    My Church is not on the list of the Anglican communion. We choose from my limited understanding of big picture politics to get off the Train of the episcopal church when they went down the road into unorthodox Christianity and departed from the one holy, apostolic and catholic church. That was long before my time, but I compare APKC to the modern TEC church and I can see the point. So if being part of the AC a big deal and TEC is a member than I am kinda happy we are not part of that.
     
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