Question about Article XXI, On Church Councils

Discussion in 'Theology and Doctrine' started by Pog, Jul 23, 2014.

  1. highchurchman

    highchurchman Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    683
    Likes Received:
    539
    Country:
    Britain
    Religion:
    Anglican/Catholic
    Are you saying that Anglicanism is the one true way established by Christ, and all other churches and denominations are faulty?Well before the IIWW, I was taught , not by a clergyman, but by an old schoolmaster that the Anglican Church was in Britain just after the Crucifixion.It was possibly the first manifestation, within Europe of the Catholic Church. The ancient Brits suggested a date of 37 AD. (Gildas./ Albanicus , 425 A.D) The English Church to my knowledge, has never claimed to be the Catholic Church and I'm sure it has never been claimed on this board!
    What it has claimed is to be a,' Communion of Catholic Believers,' within the Body of Christ, i.o.w. The one true Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church in this country. That is why it stands steady on its claim for Jurisdiction in England. (Bishop Collier's, Ecclesistical History of Eng. Vol1/6.) We are of the Church by Baptism and Apostolic Succession of belief & Orders.
    As for your second question regarding ,'other churches and denominations,'?

    If there is only one Church, those people who don't hold to the,' Revelation of Christ, once made to the saints' are in a Christian Sect!
     
  2. Pog

    Pog Member

    Posts:
    41
    Likes Received:
    2
    There was church in Britain, the Roma-British church, early on, yes. And there was Celtic Christians fairly early on too. However, the legacy of those early (though probably not apostolic) churches was probably fairly minimal, and the Church of England (ish) really came with StAugustine's (not the one from Hippo) missionary expedition. The Celtic Christians in England were merged into the Roman Catholic Augustinian church over time, after falling out over Easter and haircuts etc.

    It is highly dubious to insist that the Augustinian church had an unsullied and unchanged respository of faith going back directly to the apostles - there's already been a fair whack of controversy, theological dispute, change and development by this point. It is even more difficult, I think, to suggest that this pure stream of doctrine flowed into the English Reformation with nary an alteration or problem. And, again, the Anglican Communion has changed and developed quite a bit from the time of Elizabeth I.

    Now, I have no problem accepting the Anglican chruch's right to be classed amongst the universal, Catholic Church of believers - that it has a stem going back to the apostolic church and that it largely holds to the faith. But I cannot say more than this - that Anglican doctrinal distinctives and documents are without error, or encapsulate the whole truth, or even put forth apostolic doctrine in its purest fashion or without possibility of error, or that other branches of the universal church has less right to be part of the Church universal etc. Etc.
     
  3. highchurchman

    highchurchman Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    683
    Likes Received:
    539
    Country:
    Britain
    Religion:
    Anglican/Catholic

    Dear Friend,
    The matter rests on the credential presented for Anglican Catholicity in the Early Church! Could you present the source of your doubts?
    I have seen hardly any consistent criticism put forward by noted churchmen. S.Constantine agrees that the British Church affirmed the Nicene Creed, so does S.Athanasius. Both the Roman Church (Catholic Messenger, 2008 (?) and the Orthodox Timeline agrees, even naming the Bishop as Bishop of Lincoln, that British Bishops were present at Nice! The presence of the British Church was noted at Arles 315, Sardica and several other General Councils. That it was tainted perhaps with Pelagianism,in the Fifth Century is mentioned , so is the fact that the Gallic church gave aid and the virus was destroyed within a short while..
    I've never claimed that the Church in Britain was perfect, but I'm assured it was no worse than other particular churches at that time.
    Don't forget its bishops and theologians helped Christianise great swathes of Northern Europe. As far as Europe was concerned our Church was in at the beginning and played its part in every way!
     
  4. highchurchman

    highchurchman Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    683
    Likes Received:
    539
    Country:
    Britain
    Religion:
    Anglican/Catholic
    (QUOTE]It is highly dubious to insist that the Augustinian church had an unsullied and unchanged respository of faith going back directly to the apostles - there's already been a fair whack of controversy, theological dispute, change and development by this point. It is even more difficult, I think, to suggest that this pure stream of doctrine flowed into the English Reformation with nary an alteration or problem. And, again, the Anglican Communion has changed and developed quite a bit from the time of Elizabeth [/QUOTE]

    You might have your doubts about the ,'Augustinian Church,' I have never mentioned it! Further it was rejected by The Church in Britain and after a threat by pagans what remained of the interloping bishops did a runner back to the continent and probably found decent work there. When Augustine arrived he plainly broke the Canons of Nice and was rejected by the bishops of the original church . When Christianity was restored it was by British Bishops from these Isles with help from the Deacon James.
     
  5. Pog

    Pog Member

    Posts:
    41
    Likes Received:
    2
    If your not claiming that the church is perfect, then I'm nor sure what we're disagreeing about. But I thought that's exactly what you were claiming for it?
     
  6. highchurchman

    highchurchman Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    683
    Likes Received:
    539
    Country:
    Britain
    Religion:
    Anglican/Catholic
    That it is the Body of Christ here on Earth! It is the Church Triumphant that is without fault, not the Church militant here on earth.
    Never-the-less, I do believe that it has held on to the Ancient Faith and only in the last two hunded or so years has been bitten by the spirit of liberalism that has emptied our buildings.
     
    Pecanpie likes this.
  7. Spherelink

    Spherelink Active Member

    Posts:
    545
    Likes Received:
    246
    Religion:
    Unhinged SC Anglican
    why do you think it must be perfect to be what it's claimed to be?
     
  8. Pog

    Pog Member

    Posts:
    41
    Likes Received:
    2
    I think there's confusion here. No matter. I've said pretty much all I can say. I've got more books on order, so I'll be continuing the research. Thanks for the input folks.
     
    Pecanpie likes this.
  9. highchurchman

    highchurchman Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    683
    Likes Received:
    539
    Country:
    Britain
    Religion:
    Anglican/Catholic
    If you want to learn about Anglicanism and its history? Collier's Ecclesiastical History1/6 vols..
    Heylin's History of the Reformation. Google Books.