Anglican groups-Have I got this right?

Discussion in 'Navigating Through Church Life' started by AnglicanAgnostic, Feb 4, 2014.

  1. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    676
    Likes Received:
    302
    Country:
    New Zealand
    Religion:
    none
    As I have said before people throw acronyms around about Anglican groups in America that confuse me. I never realised there were so many groups there , I had always assumed there was just one Anglican church in the USA, like normal countries :)
    Here is my little list, and have I got the descriptions right? Indulge me a little with my desciptions as I'm not an expert on the topic.



    TEC = EPUSCA=ECUSA The Episcopal Church -more liberal than ACNA and the direct descendant of the pre Revolutionary Anglican Church

    ACNA; Anglican Church of North America -Not pro homosexual tolerance.

    APA; Anglican province of America -a continuing Anglican church sees itself as traditional

    AOC; Anglican Orthodox Church -conservative but "low church"

    AEC; American Episcopal Church -a bit more R/Catholic in taste

    ACC; Anglican Catholic Church- slighty more RCish than the AEC

    ACA; Anglican Church of America views itself as a traditional anglican church
     
    AMIA; Anglicam Mission in the Americas -Charismatical. The happy clappies of the Anglican movement

    ELCA; Lutheran not anglican
    UCC; Very liberal but not an Anglican church
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2014
  2. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    724
    Likes Received:
    718
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    High-Church Laudian
    These are fairly apt descriptions, but there are a lot more than these.
    UECNA United Episcopal Church of North America
    APCK Anglican Province of Christ the King
    OAC Orthodox Anglican Church (not the same as the Anglican Orthodox Church)
    Diocese of the Holy Cross
    EMC Episcopal Missionary Church
    CEC Charismatic Episcopal Church

    the list goes on and on....
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2014
  3. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    676
    Likes Received:
    302
    Country:
    New Zealand
    Religion:
    none
    Thanks for the update Peteprint. I had spotted all or most of your list on wikipedia but hadn't included them in my list as I didn't think they had been mentioned on this forum. If the Archbishop of Canterbury sends out an invite to "like minded fellows" for a conference which of the above group gets an invitation?
     
  4. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    724
    Likes Received:
    718
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    High-Church Laudian
    The only group in communion with Canterbury is TEC Anglican Agnostic. The others wouldn't get an invite,and several of them wouldn't accept one even if they did receive it.
     
  5. Onlooker

    Onlooker Active Member

    Posts:
    133
    Likes Received:
    37
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Religion:
    None
    That's right, although there is some noticeable sympathy for ACNA in parts of the CofE Synod, which may prove interesting to watch, and an ACNA priest has recently been appointed one of the Preachers at Canterbury Cathedral. Don't underestimate the commitment of the current ++Cantuar to processes of reconciliation.
     
  6. seagull

    seagull Active Member

    Posts:
    536
    Likes Received:
    90
    Country:
    England
    Religion:
    Anglican

    Well, the man is presumably still a validly ordained Anglican priest.

    Meanwhile in good old England (and in Scotland, Wales and Ireland, too), for all our perceived troubles, we have been spared splinter groups. The only possible exception is the wretched Personal Ordinariate, which, thank God, has failed to thrive.
     
  7. Ogygopsis

    Ogygopsis Active Member

    Posts:
    123
    Likes Received:
    60
    I would note for completeness, that Canada lacks the splinter groups also. The ACC (Anglican Church of Canada) has had some vague rumours of a few parishes that would like to go and join some of them, but it seems to have faded. The priorities are much more about the Residential Schools and the Truth and Reconciliation process, and integrally related, the ministry which was formerly "to" our First Nations peoples (Indians), and is becoming the ministry "of".

    It may be rather Canadian, but we have parishes and dioceses from all sides of virtually every issue, political stripe, and ethnicity. I know that in my area of western Canada, most Anglicans are not English or even descended from peoples of the British Isles. Lots of people whose ancestry would place them as Roman, Orthodox, Lutheran, and every congregationalist group you could care to name. I think the history elsewhere promotes the most entrenched opinions about some things, whereas here we find that the trend is for less splintering and more ecumenism. The ecumenism we seen is mainly Roman Catholics, Lutherans and Anglicans, with some involvement of Mennonites and United Church of Canada*.

    (*The United Church has nothing to do with the USA group with a similar name, it was formed in 1925 by agreement among Methodists, Presbyterians and Congregationalists, and contains most, but not all of those in Canada. )

    At any rate, the trend to more commonality and more togetherness seems to me to be a welcome trend, and I read about the splitting and wonder about it.
     
    seagull likes this.
  8. seagull

    seagull Active Member

    Posts:
    536
    Likes Received:
    90
    Country:
    England
    Religion:
    Anglican
    So do I. I did realise that the Episcopal Church was having problems and that some people were breaking away. But I didn't realise how many and varied the splinter groups were.


    In England over the years the CofE has survived threats from Methodism two hundred years ago; Newman's move to Rome; the Church of South India; and the women priests issue. The much vaunted "seismic change" of the "Personal Ordinariate" has turned out to be a damp squib. We will benefit from women bishops, and, I hope in time (though possibly not in my lifetime) resolve the gay issue. Secularism remains a problem, but the high profile "new atheists" are likely to run out of steam since they stand for so little.

    The fact that we have survived is remarkable in the light of a record of poor public relations and financial management. But we do have many advantages: a million children are being educated in thousands of our schools free of charge; we are an active and visible presence in every town and nearly every village; and we are broad church enough to cater for a considerable variety of beliefs and opinion.

    Also, do not underestimate the costs of splintering. The local vicar is relatively well paid, and has a house and a car provided. Even moving to Rome brings considerable difficulties, not least financial. It is not, of course an option open to our women priests, and although married male priests are allowed to move, they do not find it easy. (I'm not sure what they do about birth control).

    As for setting up an independent splinter church, well, think on it. Rev John Smith would have to give up not only his home and his car and many other benefits (pensions, sick pay, etc.) but his church as well. And who would pay his stipend?
     
  9. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    2,722
    Likes Received:
    2,488
    yes I cant think of a single workable disestablishment model where priests could get cars, houses, and stipends without government subsidies. ;)
     
  10. seagull

    seagull Active Member

    Posts:
    536
    Likes Received:
    90
    Country:
    England
    Religion:
    Anglican
    The Church of England does not receive any direct government support. Donations comprise its largest source of income and it also relies heavily on historic endowments. It has estimated outgoings of around £900 million and an investment portfolio of over 8 billion. ;)
     
    Spherelink likes this.
  11. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    2,722
    Likes Received:
    2,488
    Exactly, you just proved my point. Independent churches can and do thrive.
     
    Spherelink likes this.
  12. seagull

    seagull Active Member

    Posts:
    536
    Likes Received:
    90
    Country:
    England
    Religion:
    Anglican
    But presumably you also accept that the Church of England is not funded by government subsidies?
     
  13. Ogygopsis

    Ogygopsis Active Member

    Posts:
    123
    Likes Received:
    60
    Some do. Most don't. In fact the church going attendance in Canada is at an all time low. The moneyed churches in the East - those which have endowments - are generally still going, but when the parish average age pushes into then 70s, they even start to close. In the west of Canada, the churches doing well are independent as you note, and they minister to "bible believing", semi-literalist, prosperity gospel folk. The exclusion of women and exclusion of gay people, tends to accompany ant-immigration ideals and a push to conform. This means that some of us find it difficult to agree with the exercise of Christianity within these churches, who often preach wealth, conformity to their view and isolation from the evil society they project around them.

    I suspect that some of the different perspectives on some of these issues have much to do with differences in culture. Canada does not have the historical trend of independent protestantism nor unrestrained individualism that America has, and also lacks the historical connection with religion at all which exists in the UK.
     
  14. Rev2104

    Rev2104 Active Member

    Posts:
    169
    Likes Received:
    56
    Religion:
    Anglican
    I wa surprised at all the splinter groups. Sadly most of them go back to the issues ofbthe 70s. This hit the Catholics and lutherans too. The spirit of liberalism. Paul vi said on references to vatican 2 the smoke of satan entered through the window and i think thay can ne said across the board.
    All denominations have lost members and some are in a state of free fall. With the churh divided we have no strength. With the church embracing the world we are no longer important in this world. It is a sad state we live in.
     
  15. highchurchman

    highchurchman Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    683
    Likes Received:
    539
    Country:
    Britain
    Religion:
    Anglican/Catholic
    All these things the things did the C.of E., survive.? Did it? Did it survive as a Communion within the Catholic Church of antiquity?
    Or is it more important to exist as the Church of the State?

    I have very little sympathy, none at all infact, for those people who seceded to Rome, but at least they were misled, even though of little faith., The people clerics or laity who stay for the goodies, I despise, even if it it is considered unchristian! The fact is, wouldn't want to be a part of that structure, even if it were still had orthodox views. Personally, I think it is a disgusting statement. The faith is what Christ revealed, it is the faith that the apostolic college passed on to the Holy people of God and it is the Faith that according to at least one of your people that the,' Seven General Councils Explained and Interpreted.'
     
    Rev2104 likes this.
  16. Rev2104

    Rev2104 Active Member

    Posts:
    169
    Likes Received:
    56
    Religion:
    Anglican
    I sadly agree with you John.
    We as Anglicans say that this is the Catholic faith, the faith of the councils, church fathers, scripture and history.
    The Church today has introduced Novelty, Modernism and other evils. How far can you go and still be that church. How much of scripture or history are you allowed to ignore and still be one Holy, Catholic, Apostolic church.
    These are tough questions. These are not questions we want to answer. We want the world to accept us, we want to be nice. By us giving up and becoming part of the world we lost. The largest growth is in the churches that remained the most orthodox. People do not go to church for the novelty of transgender priest and female bishops. Rock music and feel good preaching do not fill our pews.
    The timeless liturgy, the mystery of faith, and the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ does.
     
    Kammi likes this.
  17. 7sacraments

    7sacraments Member

    Posts:
    43
    Likes Received:
    25
    Country:
    Canada
    Religion:
    Liberal Anglo-Catholic
    Hmm, as seemingly the only Liberal amongst the membership here I think I'll find myself at odds over a bit of the membership in regards to certain aspects.

    *sigh*
     
  18. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    2,722
    Likes Received:
    2,488
    In what way 7S?
     
  19. 7sacraments

    7sacraments Member

    Posts:
    43
    Likes Received:
    25
    Country:
    Canada
    Religion:
    Liberal Anglo-Catholic
    I do not find the recent developments within TEC to be hetrodox at all,in fact I applaud a few of the developments within the TEC and find it much more in line with the prinicples of the Christian faith in recent years then the response to the TEC's developments (which might I add fall WELL within the Anglican tripod of Scripture,Tradition and REASON) then the ACNA or other schismatics.

    I find the arguments generally espoused by the ACNA tend to ignore not only the Anglican tripod, but generally seem to be far more in line with non-denominational and far right wing "christians" then the Anglican tradition has generally been.

    We as Christians are meant to spread the Gospel to the world, to proclaim the Good News. Withdrawing from the world to me, is the not the proper response for any Christian. And as Anglicans, we've been called into a special role within the faith. We are the Via Media, the Middle Way....we are called to show the world we have a broad and more inclusive view of Creation to others.

    Sorry, but this right wing reactionism to me, is far more hetordox and dangerous then anything going on in the ACC,TEC the CofE or most of the Anglican Communion.
     
    Gordon likes this.
  20. Rev2104

    Rev2104 Active Member

    Posts:
    169
    Likes Received:
    56
    Religion:
    Anglican
    I think we would both really disagree with what is Orthodox 7s ;)