Habent Papa

Discussion in 'Anglican and Christian News' started by Lowly Layman, Mar 13, 2013.

  1. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    There she goes again...
     
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  2. Toma

    Toma Well-Known Member Anglican

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    That's interesting, Kammi. What you saw as peace I took for mediocrity or even a look of boredom. What indicates peace to you? :)

    Nice to know he's not big on the pomp & circumstance.
     
  3. Toma

    Toma Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I'm just going to start referring to Roman Catholicism as the "Marian Heresy". :p

    An account of the pilgrimage site of Kevelaer around 1870:

    "Unceasingly the crowds press forward to the sacred image, and hand crosses, medals, and missals to the brother on duty, who consecrates them by laying them against the glass covering of the image. Unceasingly the surrounding tapers, of every size, shape, and colour, offered to the Madonna by the faithful pilgrims, sputter, flare, and smoke around her image."

    800 000 still visit the shrine every year, doing much the same thing. It's blessed by every Pope since, and Francesco I will be no different. ;) So they have a Pope, and now let's move on to Christianity.
     
  4. historyb

    historyb Active Member

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    I really like the new Pope, he is humble and every time I hear him I like him more.

    For Consular

    HAIL MARY!
    :)
     
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  5. Toma

    Toma Well-Known Member Anglican

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    He reminds me of Pius XII in appearance & manner. There's a quietness about the way he carries himself, which is helped by the glasses. What an interesting choice - shame he's so advanced in years already.
     
  6. Kammi

    Kammi Member

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    His peace was something that I just felt when he walked out on the balcony for the first time and just stood there. Some people will undoubtedly think that he was just nervous or overwhelmed. But I don't think so. One of the signs of someone who has totally given their life over to God, with no strings attached is great humility, with that comes love, joy and peace. While it is very true that you never know someone else's heart, Pope Francis appears to be one of those very rare people.

    I agree, that it's nice to know that he is not big on pomp and circumstance. But I imagine that there are a number of people in the Church who are quite enjoying all the perks, who wouldn't agree with us. They are probably getting a little nervous. It's hard to justify that a Cardinal or whoever, needs a Mercedes when the Pope is riding in a Volvo.
     
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  7. Toma

    Toma Well-Known Member Anglican

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    That's a very interesting observation! The entrance on the balcony, with a simple wave and a "good evening", seemed very simple & childlike to me. At a Mass this evening, the priest said that humility is not known in appearances, but in the disposition of the person when someone begins arguing against him. Only then will we see if Francis I is really a humble man.

    In another aspect of that, it's rather funny to see all the Cardinals & Vatican-priests just getting used to Benedict XVI's Tridentine liturgical style & aesthetic - with rich fabrics, fiddleback chasubles, and lace-frilled surplices - only to have the new Pope wear something like an ugly leopard-spotted bathrobe for his first Mass. The contrast is startling, and I don't think he will be continuing the liturgical reforms which the traditionalists so enjoyed under the German. This will ruffle a few feathers.
     
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  8. Simon Magus

    Simon Magus Member

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    Ah, Sinéad O'Connor. She's a terrific lady. Not only are her first two albums impeccable (the reggae and Irish folk albums she put out more recently are excellent as well), but she's always an interesting interview: volatile, outspoken, witty, and smart as a whip. She was a Palmarian Catholic for a while there (she was even ordained as a priestess in that sect, I believe) but I think she's a complete apostate at this point. She was a beauty in her youth. In a clever turn, she played the part of the Blessed Mother in some slightly-less-than-pious visionary sequences in the movie The Butcher Boy. It was somewhat controversial at the time, but she was a walking controversy back in those days. Good to see she hasn't lost her spark.
     
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  9. seagull

    seagull Active Member

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    I'm very optimistic and its good that the College of Cardinals elected such a man. He's humble, open-minded and should work well with Justin Welby. A much needed breath of fresh air.
     
  10. Ogygopsis

    Ogygopsis Active Member

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    This thread makes me ask about the importance (or not) of the pope to Anglicans. I think over time I've detected more sense of connection from UK Anglicans than North American to popes (and to Roman catholicism). Not sure about other Anglican churches.

    Why is this, that Anglicans would care very much about a leader from a denomination that we are not part of? Except that it is large in terms of numbers. He might be a good guy, but the office's claim to ultimate authority, the institutionalized sexism, and their longstanding sexual abuse problems inter alia make me question anything beyond 'that's nice' toward the man and his office.
     
  11. Cable

    Cable New Member

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    To me, he is important insofar as 1) he is a recognized bishop, 2) many people are impacted by his words & deeds, and 3) we share history with them. I'll grant him that he is a real bishop, patriarch of the West (even though I guess they don't use that term much anymore?), and the successor to many great Saints. I won't grant infallibility (yes, I understand its limits and how they apply that term). I won't grant universal superiority to other bishops, which is completely unknown in the Early Church. I certainly don't grant the bizarre claims of Unam sanctam, such as "it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff." An idea as important as that would certainly appear in Scripture and/or among the Early Church Fathers & Councils if it were true. It does not, and it is not. I believe that Scripture reveals everything necessary for salvation. Nothing like this is found there.

    So what do I make of him? To me, he is a patriarch; and he rules over a Church that mixes truth & error, like so many Churches. His office has been occupied by great men and by egregious sinners - and, in the case of Honorius, by a heretic in my opinion. I will give him the respect that a bishop of his stature deserves, but I owe my allegiance to the Triune God and then to my own bishop.

    What do I make of Pope Francis in particular? I think that remains to be seen. Much of what he has said has been interpreted in various ways. It is parsed, stretched, bent, and broken into soundbites. It is compared to his language before his election, and contrasted with his predecessors. One-liners such as "Who am I to judge?", and lack of clarity regarding atheists & redemption (a different concept than salvation for Catholics) - things like these raise a number of questions that will be answered in time. I believe that he is sincere. Sincerely what, I do not know.