The Beast Revelation

Discussion in 'Philosophy, Truth, and Ethics' started by michael, Jun 8, 2023.

  1. michael

    michael New Member

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    The Beast Revelation

    This letter is dedicated to all Christians.

    The following letter is a summary of Revelation 13. Its purpose is to show the method used in finding the conclusions which have been stated. Nothing new has been added from my previous letters. It is more of a compilation of them all. This writing is the same material in different words. The Bible uses this same method of explanation. There are four Gospels. In each you see a different view of the same material. This can be beneficial because the meaning becomes more exact. Although, if this is a first time reader, then this will all be news to you. With that in mind, here we go.

    The first thing that should be addressed when doing any study of Bible prophecy is what questions do I intend to answer. Some of these questions can seem a little simplistic, but their answers are much more complicated. In my studies there were only a few questions that I saw as needing an answer. My questions were very simple. First, who is this individual who is identified by the number 666? Second, who is the false prophet and how does he make the whole world worship the beast whose number is 666. Another question has to do with these same individuals. Could these two individuals be the same person, or for that matter Satan himself? Where is Satan during all this? That last question is very important. It actually goes straight to the answer of all the questions. Finally, when would someone expect to see these individuals on the Earth? Literally, what time frame should I see them? Those are the questions. The answers are much more involved.

    This narrative will attempt to show how the answers are figured out. These answers can be seen from events that happen in the nightly news. This leads me to a key, which most of us know, but most of us forget. The Bible is a history book. Some events have happened, while some are waiting to happen. It is the ones that have not happened that we are most concerned with. Here is another key. By the way, these keys I speak of are keys to understanding. The Lord spoke in parables. The reason he gave was that it was for some to know the mysteries of God, while it was for some to know not. In hearing, they do not hear. In seeing, they do not see. I compare it to telling the truth, while hiding it at the same time. Many of the parables that the Lord spoke he immediately gave an answer to. He showed how he used certain symbols and words to describe subjects and then gave their meanings. Now for the punch line. The Lord also spoke in parables that he did not identify. These parables go straight to the hidden meaning of these end times. Another key is word substitution. An example of this is a pretty well-known item from Revelation. This word substitution deals with Revelation 13:1. The beast has seven heads and ten horns. In Revelation 17 those heads and horns are defined. The heads are identified as mountains, while the horns are identified as kings. This changes the whole picture of what the beast is symbolically to what it is literally. Now Rev.13:1 can be read as follows with just the items discussed thus far. And I saw a beast rise up out of the sea having seven mountains and ten kings. That is a simple and easy word substitution. Know that this will happen many times throughout the Bible.

    Now, getting back to the questions. The question is, where is Satan? If this question can be answered, you can eliminate some others. Some prophecy teachers believe that Satan is the beast, or that Satan is the false prophet. This interpretation is misleading, and it also creates a stumbling block in the path to a proper interpretation. I almost always get this question. How can you know who the beast is when he cannot be revealed? 2nd Thess. Chapter 2 states that he cannot be revealed, until something is removed first. Most scholars have this part right. That is a picture of the Rapture. What they have wrong is that Satan and the beast are not the same individual. Satan cannot be revealed until after the rapture, but he is not the beast. Therefore, I can identify the beast and his false prophet. People say prove it. So I did. I told them how to understand using the keys that I have mentioned. Revelation 13 is a parable, but God is not giving the definition, or the explanation. This one is for us to figure out. Ok, so where is Satan? In the book of Job, we get a view of Satan's abilities. In one scene, he is discussing with God about Job. Question, where is God? He is in heaven. Also, in his conversation with God Satan is talking as if he knows and has seen Job. God declares that he can do whatever he wants to Job, but he was not allowed to kill him. Now we know something else about Satan. He also has access to the Earth, and can affect peoples lives. So, it appears that Satan can be everywhere he wants to be, on Earth or in heaven. We know Satan and his angels will be cast out of heaven as per Revelation 12. This would further the idea that he is now in heaven. We also see Satan one other time, when he tempted Christ during his time on Earth. It says that he was taken to the wilderness to be tempted of Satan? Most people, and rightly so, have thought the wilderness to be a place on Earth, but this is a parable I believe. The Lord was in the wilderness and was tempted by Satan, but the wilderness is in heaven. This parable is read in Isaiah 35. It is the wilderness and the solitary place where the redeemed of the Lord walk. So, this last item being the most hard to prove, suffice it to say, that when Rev.12 says Satan will be cast out, he must be there in heaven to be cast out. Alright, now we can answer a couple questions. One, Satan is himself, and he is in heaven. Therefore, he is not the beast or the false prophet. These three work together, but each has his own identity.

    Now to dissect Revelation 13. As I have already stated, Revelation 13 is a word substitution parable. The seven heads are seven mountains and the ten horns are ten kings. Ok, we know from this description that the beast as described is a group of possibly ten countries. This brings me to another point. There are three definitions for the beast in Revelation 13. The first is a group of countries rising up out of the sea. The second is in Rev.13:11 and is a beast with two horns (kings). Remember horns are kings as per Rev. 17. Finally, there is a beast who is identified by the number 666. It is this last beast that causes all to receive a mark and that no man can buy and sell save he who has the mark, his number, or his name. There are three items here. Nowhere does it say that the mark is the number 666. This might have been a good guess 20 yrs. ago , but it is pretty hard to believe. Imagine people running around with a mark of 666 on their right hands. It sounds like a cartoon, but this is what the prophecy teachers want you to believe. Ok, another problem that sounds like a cartoon is the interpretation of the word "all." They want you to believe that no man could buy or sell if they did not worship the beast and take his mark. Interpreting the word "all" to mean everyone in the world. This is not the case. For one, we know that the beast is made up of only possibly ten countries. Everyone in this world lives in roughly 190 countries. I don't think we could possibly mean everyone. How about, all of those people concerned with the mark. Also, how do you cause all people concerned to receive a mark, and why? The most obvious way to mark everyone is at the voting booth. All people, rich and poor, small and great, or free and bond are potential voters. So, Mahmoud Abbas was elected president of the Palestinian Authority, and in the process all voters received an indelible ink mark on their right hands. This mark was to prevent double voting and corruption in the election. Ok, we have a mark. It is not 666. At this point he fits the part, but not completely. Still, there is no ready identification of 666 concerning him. This election was in January 2005.

    Back to Rev.13. We have seven mountains and ten kings. Prophecy teachers want us to believe that a city with seven mountains is the seat of the antichrist and he rules with ten nations. Their logical conclusion was the Europe Union and the Vatican. This started the revived Roman empire theory. This theory has been around since the reformation. It is hard to believe this charade has gone on so long. Teachers are still preaching the Revived Roman Empire. This theory had some validity before the twentieth century and now has to be eliminated. None of these teachers could have predicted the fall of the Ottoman Empire and its division into so many separate sovereign nations. Back to our word substitution. There is an interesting item here concerning the word mountains in scripture. The word mountains can have two meanings. It can be either a mountain range, or a nation. This is the hardest part of this whole exercise, trying to figure out what mountains are describing. Teachers will have you believe it is a city with seven mountains. In actual fact, mountains here are referring to nations. This also pertains to the head wound. The wound was not a literal head wound at all, but was a nation that was wounded. The beast's head or nation was wounded and was healed. This is the Palestinian Authority after the beginning of the Oslo Accords. The land that Israel possessed was now being given back to the Palestinians and the beast's nation is being healed. Ok, so now I have seven nations and ten kings, Rev.13:1. Why do I have three more kings than nations? It seems I have a king for each nation, but three left over. In Daniel in says the beast subdued three kings. These three kings don't necessarily have to be from different countries. It seems so, but is not expressly mentioned. It is another parable. The three kings who were subdued by the beast were Israeli Prime Ministers. These three Prime Ministers all served during the seven years of the Oslo Accords and were voted out of office because of terror perpetrated during Yasser Arafat's rule. Now, I am down to seven nations. These seven nations will wage war. I can easily see seven nations that will wage war here very soon; Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Iran and the Palestinian Authority or Iraq, and there opponent Israel. This is exactly the same beast that is presented in Rev.17:10, just in a slightly different appearance. There are seven kings, five are fallen. This means five kings were defeated in war. Israel is referred to the "one that is," and the one that came later is the Palestinian Authority. This is a description of Israel's war for Independence. Literally, this was the beast being born. The war in 1967 is the beast rising up out of the sea in Rev.13:1. It was the unresolved issues of this conflict that resulted in the Oslo Accords of 1993. This seven year peace treaty was confirmed by Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat.

    Now, there is another beast in Rev.13:11. This beast has two horns or kings. This is a picture of the Palestinian Authority after the elections of January 2006. This is when Hamas ran in the elections and won a majority in parliament. Now the P.A. was a country with two kings. Abbas was the President and Ismail Haniyeh was the Prime Minister. Here is where the problem with money came about. Western Nations did not want to donate money to a known terrorist organization so looked for a way they could still fund Abbas's P.A., but not let any money get to Hamas. This is when the number 666 identified an individual. The temporary international mechanism was adopted on June 16, 2006. This program allowed Western Nations to donate funds directly to Abbas, while bypassing Hamas. If you were a member of Fatah, or on Abbas's payroll you got paid. This is how the people were allowed to buy and sell. They received salaries, whereas before the mechanism, they had no way of getting paid from the Government. Hamas did not receive salaries. Also, Hamas did not receive the mark of the beast. They boycotted the elections for President in Jan. 2005.
    It is more obvious who is being talked about the closer you get to the end.

    In conclusion, to my three beast definitions. Mahmoud Abbas fits all three definitions. He was a member of the P.A. when it was formed. He took over from Yasser Arafat after his death. He was one of the two kings of the second beast in Rev.13:11. Lastly, he is the one identified by the number 666, which could have been Arafat had he lived.

    Now, concerning the false prophet. The following four verses below all refer to the false prophet, Ismail Haniyeh.

    Rev.13:11- and I beheld another beast coming up out of the Earth, and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
    Rev.13:12- And he exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein, to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
    Rev.13:13- "And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the Earth in the sight of men".
    Rev.13:15- And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast, should be killed.


    Hamas exercised all the power of the first beast (Abbas's P.A.) because they were now an equal partner in the Government. Also, the leader of Hamas caused them to worship or honor the first beast because Hamas would not honor the first beast. The first beast was the PA without Hamas as a member. The image of the beast is what the Government of Mahmoud Abbas represented. Verse 12 does not mention the image yet, we are just informed that the false prophet caused them to worship the first beast. Verse 14 and 15 gives the details of how that worshipping or honor was to commence. An image was created of the first beast that he (the false prophet) caused to be honored. This image of the beast is three items; the recognition of Israel, the honoring of all prior Palestinian agreements, and a renunciation of terror.

    The last question I think that needs addressed is how do you know the timing is right? Meaning, there have been so many translations, how do you know that this one is correct? This is a question I always get asked. The answer, in my mind, is sort of a mix between two different prophecies. The first is the seven day prophecy as recorded in Genesis. It is a similitude between this and the amount of recorded time that has already happened on Earth. In the book of Peter, God says one day to him is as a thousand years. If that idea is applied to the Genesis creation, everyday that God created something one thousand years passed. Finally, on the last day he rested from his work, and his rest was one thousand years or one of God's days. This was one full week or 7000 years. After God's rest he started his work again, and he created Adam. Starting with Adam, it was approximately 4000 years to the time of Christ. Also, we know that Christ was here roughly 2000 years ago. If God was to be consistent with his one week schedule, then we could expect his day of rest to fall somewhere after the year two thousand. 4000 plus 2000 is six days and on the seventh he rested for one thousand years. This is not an exact estimate, but it can put you in the right ballpark when searching for the correct timing of Revelation. This is the estimate. The next item is more exact. Daniel 9:27 says that he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week. Many in Hebrew is Rab. This was a covenant confirmed with Yitzhak Rabin. It was the beginning of land for peace, or the Oslo Accords. When you see this agreement happen you should be aware that this prophecy will last seven years. There is only one problem with this item. Prior to it happening, everyone thought that the end of the seventh year of the agreement God would return and begin his rest. Well, that did not happen. The reason was a logical misinterpretation. It just mentions that this agreement must occur along with the prophecies mentioned, not that they would all happen and end on the last day of the seventh year. This has thrown everyone watching off-course for a time. Although, this was not such a terrible mistake if the watcher could see the right answer and get his, or her perspective back. When you have these two items coinciding at the expected time, then you know Revelation can be interpreted with accuracy. The events should start happening, as they have, as I have recorded in this letter.

    May God bless all who read this letter.

    Michael
     
  2. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    The 'letter' contains numerous suppositions and guesses.

    From your comments about 2 Thess. 2, I take it you subscribe to either a "pre-tribulation" or "mid-tribulation" rapture, am I correct? This is contradicted by scripture. Would you like to know why and how?
     
  3. michael

    michael New Member

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    I think it contradicts your belief, but you are free to reply as you wish.
     
  4. Invictus

    Invictus Well-Known Member

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    This torrent of incoherence reminded me of a scene from Ghostbusters:
     
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  5. michael

    michael New Member

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    So, does that mean you don't understand it?
     
  6. Invictus

    Invictus Well-Known Member

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    :laugh: Of course I do. It’s just that it’s nonsense, that’s all. Trolling usually is. :yes::laugh:
     
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  7. michael

    michael New Member

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    Is the word trolling just another way to mock people. Do you feel trolled? BTW, define trolling.
     
  8. Laine

    Laine Member

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    I would like to know, please, Rexlion.
     
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  9. michael

    michael New Member

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    The only information I want to communicate is written in the letter. If you have a reply to my words, then give it.
     
  10. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    Okay, thanks.

    1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    Notice what directly precedes the rapture, when we are 'caught up'?
    (1) Jesus Himself descends from heaven, and
    (2) the faithful dead in Christ are raised.

    When are the faithful dead raised? Jesus tells us it will be on the last day:
    John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
    John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
    John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
    John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Since the day of the rapture includes raising the faithful dead, the rapture must be on the last day. A pre- or mid-trib scenario would occur years prior to the last day, so those scenarios are unscriptural.

    There is an additional reason why pre- and mid-tribulation scenarios are unscriptural. There are only two comings of Jesus, don't you agree? The first coming was when Jesus was born of Mary. The second coming will be when He returns to earth "in the clouds" and "every eye shall see Him" (Rev. 1:7). If Jesus were to return physically to our planet "with a shout" but remain in the clouds (not setting foot on the Mount of Olives), this would still be a "coming" or return at which He might be seen (and heard) by any number of people due to airplanes, satellites, telescopes, etc. In fact, when He does return in the clouds, we are assured in Rev. 1:7 that everyone will see Him. There is no scriptural support for the idea that Jesus would make a second coming just into earth's atmosphere, then zip back into heaven and wait several more years to come a third time. It seems much more likely that the day when Jesus descends "from heaven with a shout" will be the Second Advent, the Day of the Lord.
     
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  11. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    I do believe that Jesus will return soon. I take the prophecies seriously. But we will have to wait and see the actual identities of the two beasts. I think the hypotheses offered here are highly speculative. Not impossible, but they don't resonate with me. I think AI could be involved somehow (the first beast might not be a living human being, but a soulless computer-driven intelligence), but that too is speculation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2023
  12. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    It probably means he understands what it is that is actually written there, I suppose.

    As to what it actually means, and whether it is actually true, we shall have to wait and see. Time will tell. By the way, what is this information supposed to do for us readers? Now we have it, how are we better off for the possession of it?

    I mean, it's hardly as edifying, life enhancing and informative as the message of the Gospel is it.
    .
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2023
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  13. michael

    michael New Member

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    How it helps you personally, I cannot tell. Maybe you have such great faith that nothing will make it grow further. Some individuals like a little more. What I mean is, when you see fulfilled prophecy, it can make your faith grow. What might be as little as a mustard seed can grow into a mountain. I prefer to know, as well as just about everybody else, that God's words are true. One way to show this is by watching and verifying their truth. While you may not need this for your personal walk with God, there are many who welcome it. It is designed to increase your faith in Jesus. He said it, it happened, and we know he caused it, and he was the God of creation. That's it. This is evident to any Christian.
     
  14. AnglicanAgnostic

    AnglicanAgnostic Well-Known Member

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    Well I suggest you tell Jesus to get a wriggle on!

    As I said in another post

    "So are you saying before the completely unexpected return of Jesus akin to a thief in the night there will be;

    1 An individual who attempts to become leader of the whole planet.
    2 A prominent religious figure who supports this person.
    3 Two witnesses who will be killed by the beast.
    4 Elijah to return. As you say The "great and awesome day of the LORD" points to the Second Advent"
    5 The temple to be rebuilt for your two witnesses to do their thing. "

    and you said

    "Yes, that's pretty much what I'm saying, "
     
  15. Tiffy

    Tiffy Well-Known Member

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    But ARE we seeing fulfilled prophesy or just one persons imagined scenario. Human beings have an in built tendency to see 'patterns' and 'rationalise', some with over active imaginations and perhaps insufficient discernment. Many have been mislead by imaginative predictions based upon interpretations of some texts in Revelation which later were proven wrong by the passing of time, causing them to lose what little faith they actually had.
    .
     
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  16. michael

    michael New Member

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    I have read all of the end time scenarios. I understand your concern. I have been watching this for close to forty years. The one thing that my words have that all others do not is that mine are based on post-diction, not prediction. I have witnessed the events which have happened with my own eyes. I have given the meaning to the verses based on recent events. The letter that I have posted will not change. It is the same as it was 12 years ago when it was written and will never change. Other interpretations keep changing and the goal posts keep moving. This is because the teachers do not know the answers and hope that they can get the right answer. Just once, I would like to hear them say I was wrong. This is the correct meaning. As I have found, this will never happen.
    The reason for this confusion is because some are supposed to know the answer, while some are not. If God had made the answers plain so even Satan's own could interpret them, they would have tried to change the outcome for their benefit. Therefore, God spoke in parables and mysteries that could only be seen by those who were present at the time to see them. Once they have happened, now Satan has to try and hide the truth. Satan did not know the truth himself, sending hundreds of interpretations to confuse the elect. Christian teachers help play a part in this confusion. It should no longer be confusing to God's people. There are those who know the answer, but I perceive they are afraid to change their long-standing interpretations. They just wait patiently for Jesus's coming. Having said all that, I think it is a little humorous how Satan has been duped. M
     
  17. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    But the Palestinian Authority is not a nation. "Palestine" is not and has never been a nation. How do you account for this?

    Which city reigned over the 'known world' around the time of Christ? Wasn't Rome the ruling city in those days?
    Now let's connect the dots.
    Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth (present tense, back then) over the kings of the earth.
    The harlot of Rev. 17 is identified with the city of Rome.
    The governing authority connected to this city (represented by the harlot woman) will be carried along by the beast with 7 heads & 10 horns; the nations/kings are a source of empowerment for the governing authority located at, or associated with, Rome. One of those heads appeared to have been healed of a deadly wound. You say it's the Palestinian Authority.
    How does the Palestinian Authority serve as a source of empowerment for Rome?
     
  18. michael

    michael New Member

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    I don't think it is time for me to account for anything. Everything that I say can be investigated and judged as to whether I have been right or wrong. I think it is time for all the false teachers to stand up and admit they were wrong. Many of the beliefs that you hold were written by long since dead pastors and teachers who had no idea what was going to happen. They had just made predictions. They always expected their predictions to come true. and when they didn't, they just moved the goal posts.
    I have not really wanted to reply to you since I started this thread. It feels like tension with you waiting to accuse me of anything. Therefore, here is a link to a newspaper clipping which will describe what I have written, which you could have found at any point in the last 30 years. Also, once I have written something I really don't expect to have to belabor the point. It is your responsibility to investigate and show yourself worthy. Here is the link.

    Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat sign accord for Palestinian self-rule (history.com)
    https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/rabin-and-arafat-sign-accord-for-palestinian-self-rule
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2023
  19. Invictus

    Invictus Well-Known Member

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    The time for that was 2,000 years ago. The book of Revelation was written for and about the 1st century, not the 21st.

    I sometimes wonder if we would not have been better off if the book had simply been left out of the canon. Eastern Christians never fully accepted it, and to this day it is the one book of the NT that isn’t assigned a place in the lectionary of the Eastern Orthodox churches (which is fine by me). There is way too much idle speculation built around it in the West. It’s best recognized for it was at the time, and left at that.
     
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  20. Rexlion

    Rexlion Well-Known Member

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    When I made that post, I was essentially asking if you could explain the glaring discrepancy between Scripture and your completely conjectural, totally unsupported hypothesis. You have no explanation, apparently, since you have dodged the issue. Since Scripture prevails over conjecture, it is clear that the hypothesis is wrong. Case closed.

    :biglaugh: Show myself worthy? To you? :rofl: (Not one of us is even a tiny bit worthy before our Lord apart from His grace.) Even a great Bible scholar must remain teachable and willing to be shown something he's missed. Revelation is a difficult book to grasp and no one can call himself expert. Frankly, stating without equivocation or doubt that Abbas is the individual pointed out as the beast really is no better than the verious hacks who said the beast was Nero, or Hitler, or John F. Kennedy. Christians have seen this mistake made before, so it's easily recognizable. Why not pick George Soros, Bill Gates, or Klaus Schwab? They are as good or better guesses.... but all of the above, including Abbas, are merely guesses.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2023