HI Anyone here a member of this church or have a good knowledge of them. I found out we are in full communion with this church and this spark my interest. Thanks
To that, all I can say is, "which Old Catholic Church?" There are as many permutations of Old Catholicism as Anglicanism, and many equally sketchy.
Looking at the Wikipedia and other pages, I can't see that Old Catholics are either Old or Catholic anymore. Whereas opposition to papal authority and the jesuits seems to have been the original motive to split from Roman Catholicism, antinominism, including women priests and acceptance of SSM makes them barely Christian. As with so much protestantism, if discipline is not maintained, antinominism ends up prevailing - a danger that Martin Luther was acutely aware of, when he said " For in the Son of God, I really see the wrath of God."
I am not a member of the Old Catholic Church, but I have visited one of their parishes. It was an overwhelming elderly crowd, including the priest. He had to sit on a stool during the actual service at the altar as he could not stand. It seemed that the church was there just to serve the small community of attendees-I didn't get the impression they were active or trying to expand. No one seemed particularly interested in speaking with us. The women were in veils and the inside was decorated like it was from 1980's. Other than that, I don't remember much else.
The Old Catholic Church, though noble in it's schism from the Roman Catholic Church over Vatican I and Papal infallibility, has become too liberal. With the blessing of same-sex marriage and female ordination I would say they are no longer a viable option of worship for Anglo-Catholics. However a splinter church from the Old Catholic Church has emerged from their Union of Scranton (2008). The Polish National Catholic Church and the Nordic Catholic Church are therefore the only theologically sound churches to come from the OCC. I am looking into them but they seem to be based in Poland and Scandinavian countries only.
In my searches regarding OCC's in the United States there seem to be a couple that are reasonably orthodox here, but both seem extremely small in size; by and large, the OCC's have gone the way of the Utrecht group.
Where are you based? I worship in Rochester Diocese. It's a real disgusting, open secret that the Anglo-Catholics in the Church of England suffer from a rampant sodomite problem. There are still true Anglicans upholding the articles, using the prayer book, and growing. There are also forces gathering outside the Church of England, like around my Lord Bishop Gavin Ashenden.
I worship in the York Diocese, but because I am Forward in Faith my Bishop is the Bishop of Beverley, Glyn Webster. I find myself becoming more catholic in theology, having attended a Latin Mass today for the first time it has made me question the Anglican church and its aim. Indeed Anglo-Catholic theology is the most sensible in my eyes, however it can become very "clique" based and more show than worship.
I was confirmed by the flying bishop of Richborough. I too thought Anglo-Catholicism made the most sense, but I couldn't square that with the actual experiences I had with Anglo-Catholics. I went to a vocations conference at St. Stephen's House Oxford and I couldn't get past how poorly spiritually formed the whole lot of them were. I mean, the bishop of Chichester is in an openly sodomite relationship with another bishop. What aspects of the theology of anglocatholics do you find most compelling?
Isn't the Old Catholic Church the one sect that Sinead O'Connor joined? Mind you, I despise how celebrities these days, who are nominally religious, tend to represent the Christian faith, but I am not surprised, because the Old Catholic Church, however small it is, is mostly living on through liberal progressivism in increasingly secular countries. I feel the holy spirit has convicted me that there is no credibility in the Old Catholic Church, so I ignore it. There could be a revival, but I doubt it because there are so many better and more fruitful alternatives, that it makes the Old Catholic Church seem like a joke. I'm surprised to hear people doubting Anglicanism though. I have never been to an Anglican church, or Lutheran, or any kind of catholic church for that matter, but my experiences with Roman Catholics, especially the exclusivists, are very disturbing. They are very similar in demeanor to many Atheists, Calvinist zealots, and other academic, but spiritually dead apologists I've seen or encountered both in real life and online. They are smug from the get go, and it's obvious their first move is to get a kick out of hurting you by putting you down based on their 'intelligence' and ability to spout technical and esoteric jargon, expecting you to understand this babble. Mind you, I've reacted to many of these people in demonic and ungodly ways that hurt my witness or attempt to be better. In the end, we were basically returning evil for evil. I had trouble trusting God at times due to being misunderstood and hurt by the church, and would sometimes lose my hold, so as to say blasphemous and scary things. I ask for God's forgiveness on these matters. It goes back to what Paul said about doing ministry without love. Some were ardent defenders or learned apologists, but in spite of all of it, they had dark, brooding personalities, and most importantly, were very unforgiving and cut throat in how they corrected or dealt with my mistakes or ignorance in understanding their doctrine at the time, something I didn't see as often from those in the evangelical camp, even though they, like many Catholics, have their share of hurtful and hypocritical people, too, and growing up a Protestant, I know this very well. They would even deny the power of prayer, saying I didn't deserve it, when in some instances I tried to ask for reconciliation, they just would not let go of their ego and say, "I'm not gonna pray for you" and one set of people I met, who were two catholics in robes and a priest, shook their heads and said, "No, don't pray for him at all".
I am sorry that you had that experience, that is no way for any Christian to act, including those within the orthodox tradition. Sinead O'Connor was "ordained" in a Celtic-ish sect that broke off from the wider Utrecht Union. Utrecht Union has gone mostly the way of TEC (no orthodoxy whatsoever) but there is always light in the darkness. You bring up a great point, that a sense of near legalism has seized the orthodox bits of the Church. Too many people think that if you aren't exactly in adherence with the doctrine espoused by the Orthodox Anglican Catholic Apostolic Communion [Fond du Lac Province](tm), you are damned to hell. There's a clear line between defending and defining orthodoxy and unnecessary schism and legalism in the church, and all too often we cross it.
Sinead O'Connor was "ordained" by "Bishop" Michael Cox (please google him) in an hotel room in Lourdes after she contributed a large amount of money
I have sometimes been to an "Old Catholic" Church. This "Old" gives wrong idea. They are newer and more modern than the "normal" RCC.
n.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Diocese_of_the_Old_Catholics_in_Germany#:~:text=and%20eastern%20Germany.-,Prevalence,Utrecht%20employed%20to%20build%20dykes. In comparison to other countries the Old Catholic Church is relatively strong in Germany. There is a OCC church building also in the town here I live.
Very interesting! I didn't know about the Old Catholics before reading a bit from your link. Based on the name alone I would have assumed (wrongly) that they were adherents to the Latin Mass or something like that.
Yes - the name lends itself to this idea. But the opposite is true. "Old" here means rather: Back to the roots. Back to the early Christians.
It's no surprise you've not heard of them. They're found mainly in German-speaking central European countries. They came about after Vatican I not Vatican II. It was the RCC's declaration of papal infallibility by Vatican I that was the main catalyst for their formation. However, their history is a little more complicated than that.
My own Anglican jurisdiction is in full communion with the Old Catholic Church of Slovakia. I've not heard much from them of late. Their presiding bishop, Augustin Bacinsky, died of the Covid last year. I hope they have not imploded due to a leadership vacuum.
I thought most old catholics were kinda liberal these days. Also was there not some issue with Bishop Bacinsky's ordination?