Worship of the New Testament Church

Discussion in 'Sacred Scripture' started by Lowly Layman, Feb 21, 2013.

  1. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    2,722
    Likes Received:
    2,488
    I often run into people who say that their church is a return to the worship of the NT church, the implication being that somehow Anglicans have abandoned it with the use of liturgy. And so I open the book of Acts and show them the picture of worship conducted by the first Christians: Acts 2:42
    It seems very much like what we do in Anglican churches to this day. I normally point out that it says "the prayers" which implies a set of standard prayers that were recited rather than spontaneous prayer. Thus, from the beginning, the church's worship has been, in some capacity, lifurgical.

    Justin Martyr, in his First Apology, written just a century after the Christ's Ascension, gave us this picture of Christian Worship as he received it:
    Friends our worship is authentic, inspirational, and past down to us over 2000 years through tradition. Never concede that non-sacremental, "spirit" led, worship styles, with little Apostolic teaching, long sermons with power points and props, rock bands, and stages instead of altars are somehow closer to the biblical model of Christian worship. We don't live in a vaccuum, we are called to hold fast to the traditions we were taught, either by word or letter.
     
  2. Jeff F

    Jeff F Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    377
    Likes Received:
    371
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Conservative Believer
    Layman,

    As you probably already know, the people who erroneously make this comment can usually only trace their denominational history to the Azuza Street revival of 1902. Anything older than that they ignorantly associate with the Roman church. :rolleyes:

    Jeff
     
    Lowly Layman and Toma like this.
  3. Toma

    Toma Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    1,402
    Likes Received:
    1,129
    Country:
    Canada
    Religion:
    Anglican
    That attitude comes up often in the writings of the 17th century Puritans. They associated liturgy, set worship, composed prayers, and even the plain cross, with Medieval Romanism. One of the great tragedies of the Civil War & Protectorate was the "completion of the Reformation", as they saw it; i.e. the destruction of much remaining beauty kept by Edward & Elizabeth. A properly-defined liturgy in the language of the people, however, is the best preservative against Popery, so-called by the "low church".

    As to the O.P., Lowly Layman, there were many books on this subject written in the 18th c. as well, such as Charles Wheatly's excellent A Rational Illustration on the Book of Common Prayer, printed by 1722. Its very Introduction is titled "Shewing the Lawfulness and Necessity of a National Precomposed Liturgy". Here is a comparatively modern edition. Anthony Sparrow, bishop of Norwich, wrote his own Rationale in 1672, Here.
     
    Lowly Layman likes this.
  4. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    1,833
    Likes Received:
    1,341
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Anglican (ACNA)
    Very enlightening post Consular, thank you for that.

    And my thanks to you as well LL. Your OP and continued opposition to these false movements are a must, and I am glad we stand together against them!
     
  5. zimkhitha

    zimkhitha Active Member

    Posts:
    221
    Likes Received:
    218
    Religion:
    Anglican
    I know this is an old post, however it is very helpful. One former Roman Catholic colleague once mentioned that her "new church's worship " was spirit led.

    I rarely feel emotional during church worship (until I receive communion, that is). But even that could be my own doing out of desire to experience something during communion. I however, has seen how worshiping God through liturgical this way has transformed me as a person.( slowly BUT surely). I've experienced both forms of worship and I must say that the Eucharist and liturgy do feed me (for lack of a better expression).
     
  6. Mark

    Mark Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    225
    Likes Received:
    408
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Happy Anglican
    I have been a Southern Baptist minister and an Anglican Priest. While a Baptist, I constantly heard and even said that Baptists worship like a NT or 1st century church. Never heard Anglicans say that, Romans have the mantra "we are the church Jesus founded" which they say over and over to anyone who will listen. Guess they are still trying to convince themselves of that.

    This past Sunday, my youngest two daughters were singing in the choir at the largest SBC Church in the town. So we went to hear them before services.
    The church building was big, saw the financials....$8-9 million budget, large group of singers, choir, great sound system, video, larger than life minister,singers were top notch. When our daughters song was over we headed to the elevator, we were on the third floor of the auditorium. My wife asked me, "do you miss this?" I smiled and said no. Just does not feel right anymore. My 9 year old said, "daddy they had everything. But where was Jesus?" Then it hit me....no sacraments. I do not doubt they love Jesus, but they are caught up in the showmanship of being the church. I remember the constant comments of having a good time from my old church and from my older children.

    We made it to St Matthews. We meet in a rented house converted into a meeting area. Have a portable altar, poor ventilation, no sound system, no instruments, old worn out hymns and prayer books, uncomfortable chairs and a small congregation. We have the sacraments, and Jesus physically present with us at Eucharist. I thought how many in that mega church would leave all it had, join a small, struggling congregation with nothing, but Jesus.

    I now know why Anglicans do not act like the Romans or Baptists. We are the first century church and do not need to convince ourselves or others.

    A tidbit about this Baptist Church, a few years ago when Christmas fell on Sunday. They cancelled all services. They did not want to take people away from family time on Christmas Day.

    Fr. Mark
     
    Rev2104, zimkhitha, Andy and 2 others like this.
  7. Spherelink

    Spherelink Active Member

    Posts:
    545
    Likes Received:
    246
    Religion:
    Unhinged SC Anglican
    Fr. Mark I enjoy just about everything you write, and this post makes me very proud to be an Anglican.
     
    Andy, Joshua119 and Lowly Layman like this.
  8. Toma

    Toma Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    1,402
    Likes Received:
    1,129
    Country:
    Canada
    Religion:
    Anglican
    zimkhitha & Fr. Mark, very good, insightful posts. :)

    That worship is "Spirit-led" which is faithful to the truth handed down from the Apostles, and which continues in love for God and neighbour. I find, also, that worship in spirit and truth more easily takes place in the context of a uniform liturgy. Although it hurts those who are good at extemporizing in prayer, the great majority of clergy will admit that they do not make up prayers very well. It is a work of charity towards them to have a set liturgy.

    As for me, I've never actually worshiped God in a setting other than a liturgical one: Orthodox, Catholic, or Anglican. To me, the notion of a liturgy-less worship is incomprehensible. Feelings, emotions, senses, and engagement of the aesthetic appreciation are well-and-good... but they seem very easily to lead to humanocentric activity.

    Ironically, all the emotion in the world overwhelms me when I receive Holy Communion, and during certain hymns & psalms. One need not "feel good" the entire time.
     
    zimkhitha, Andy and Lowly Layman like this.
  9. Joshua119

    Joshua119 Member

    Posts:
    38
    Likes Received:
    65
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Anglo-Catholic
    You know, since becoming a Christian I've been to a lot of various churches and worship styles, and every one has had some reason why it's the best possible expression of Christianity. Never before have I seen such a simple yet profound reasoning for our form of worship.

    This is exactly why my wife and I came to the Anglican Church. Evangelical and Baptist, at least in our area, are little more than rock shows. The RC Churches in our area are not far behind, abandoning reverence for modern comforts and styles.

    When I stand in St. David's, with light coming through the stained glass windows, with robed Priests entering, proceeded only by the Cross of Christ, with thuribles swinging and the gentle smoke rising, with a coir singing beautifully, free of electric guitars, I know that I am partaking in a true Apostolic expression of worship.
     
    Andy, Toma and Lowly Layman like this.
  10. Spherelink

    Spherelink Active Member

    Posts:
    545
    Likes Received:
    246
    Religion:
    Unhinged SC Anglican
    I mean we oughtn't forget the ministry of the Sacred Word either, for how will they be saved if they don't hear, and how will they hear if someone doesn't minister to them? However outside the liturgy this suffers deeply, as does the Sacrament Fr. Mark alluded to. The SBC has 'speeches' and they even have a 'stage' for it. We have sermons and homilies, in a deeply profound liturgical context.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2015
    Andy, Aidan and Lowly Layman like this.
  11. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

    Posts:
    945
    Likes Received:
    610
    Country:
    N Ireland
    Religion:
    Traditional RomanCatholic
    Mark , what's the difference between the Roman Catholic claim to authenticity and your own? When you use the term "Romans" do you intend to be derogatory?
     
    Toma likes this.
  12. Mark

    Mark Well-Known Member Anglican

    Posts:
    225
    Likes Received:
    408
    Country:
    United States
    Religion:
    Happy Anglican
    Aidan,

    The term Roman refers to the branch of the Church based in Rome. They claim they and only they are Catholic and the one true Church.

    When I use the word Roman it is to show they are but a part of the one true Church, not the entirety of the Church.

    Anglicans do not claim the term Church exclusively, not the term Catholic exclusively as does the Church of Rome...ie the Roman Catholic Church.

    Anglicans do not think the Roman Catholic Church must subordinate itself to us to be part of the one true Church. Rome holds that all must subordinate themselves to them for unity and to be part of the one true Church.

    Every Eucharist service, Morning or Evening Prayer service, Anglicans recite the Creed that holds to believe in one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

    Hope this helps.

    Fr. Mark
     
    Botolph, Lowly Layman and Toma like this.
  13. zimkhitha

    zimkhitha Active Member

    Posts:
    221
    Likes Received:
    218
    Religion:
    Anglican
    It is amazing how insightful children can be. We used to attend a non-denomination mega church. My son was 5 at the time and he hated church to the core. it came about that he is ADHD and apparently the environment was not good for his peace of mind.
     
    Toma likes this.