where did The Episcopal Church veer off?

Discussion in 'Anglican History' started by Anglo1, Apr 1, 2017.

  1. Anglo1

    Anglo1 Member

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    I have read the sad tale about Bishop James Pike and we all know about Spong but who or what was the catalyst that turned them into the present leftist group they are? I understand loving all as Christ would want us to but you cannot sacrifice TRUTH for love.

    Katherine Schori's little 2009 "personal salvation is a western heresy" just made my head hurt in so many ways. Sad. If any are former Episcopals, I'd love to know your story. Thanks.
     
  2. PotterMcKinney

    PotterMcKinney Active Member Typist Anglican

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    There was a certain liberalization of all Christian theology in the 20th century, and while I like many of the theologians that period produced (Tillich comes to mind especially,) there were serious issues. the PECUSA has run away with some of these ideas, but in my generation of young people there is a well-deserved reaction against the extremes of liberal theology.

    In short, I'd say it had a lot to do with the growing pains associated with the world-shattering events of the 20th century, mostly due to German theology from Tillich, Schweitzer, and the like being corrupted by being filtered through American... sensibilities (that is to say, commercialized "feel-good" ridiculousness).
     
  3. Anglo1

    Anglo1 Member

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    What gets me is a guy like John Spong who outright denies the Virgin Birth and the Resurrection yet was allowed to continue to be a bishop. Without the VB and the Resurrection, what is left?
     
  4. PotterMcKinney

    PotterMcKinney Active Member Typist Anglican

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    Precisely. Tillich also did the same thing, one of his less than admirable qualities. It was a trend in Christian thought that arose at the dusk of a time where the historicity of Jesus was questioned by academia fairly universally. It doesn't help that Spong cites Tillich as his biggest influence, because at least Tillich has great ideas aside from skepticism. Why Spong could be a bishop, I don't know. It was a weird time for the PECUSA. I haven't read his work, but I know his 12 Points for Reform, which are malarkey. I have faith that these trends will be walked away from in my lifetime.
     
  5. Anglo1

    Anglo1 Member

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    Let us certainly hope so. Blessings!
     
  6. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    I'm my opinion, Vatian 2 also led to Anglicanism adopting liberality due to a sea change
     
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  7. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I agree Aidan.
     
  8. Anglo1

    Anglo1 Member

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    Which is why the continuing Anglican bodies broke away from TEC in 1976. Women priests, openly gay priests, denial of basic Christian tenets. It's sad.
     
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  9. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member Anglican

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    My own feeling is that Vatican II and the widespread movement in many mainstream hierarchical churches to liberalize, modernize, innovate, and include was neither spontaneous nor organic. I believe, and I think there is very good evidence to back up this belief, that this was the result of purposeful, coordinated, covert operations by communist organizations to infiltrate, weaken, and ultimately destroy organized religion in the west. The Rosenbergs spoke of it, as did others, Father Malachi Martin wrote about it, as did Bella Dodd. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bella_Dodd.

    I am sure some will call this a conspiracy theory but conspiracies do occur and can cause very real harm on a widespread level. I think this strategy has been revamped and restarted under Putin as we can see in the past election. It is my prayer that God will expose and root out the infiltraters and the heresies they have sown.
     
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  10. Mockingbird

    Mockingbird Member

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    We never "veered off".
     
  11. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member Anglican

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    @Mockingbird, I'm an epiacopalian too. Do you really believe there are no problems the direction and cuurent theology of TEC? What are your thoughts on the priests who have either left or been defrocked over the issue of gay marriage, WO, gay priests, etc? What's your take on the Anglican Communion's censure of TEC? What's your opinion dismally shrinking rolls of episcopal parishes? Not wanting start an argument, just wanting to see a different perspective.
     
  12. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I think conspiracies have a funny way of being more true than people think. But what and where did the Rosenbergs and Father Malachi Martin say about what you're referring to?
     
  13. Mark

    Mark Well-Known Member Anglican

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    1884. Pope Leo after celebrating Mass goes into a trance. For 10 minutes he stands staring, his face ashen and terrified. At the end of the trance he goes to his office and writes the prayer to St Michael. (not the short one but one that is a page and multiple paragraphs long.) He declared that after every low Mass this plus the Salve Regina be said or sung. It was done until the prayer was shorten in the 1930s. The practice ended around 1970.

    When asked why, Pope Leo said he had a vision of a conversation between Satan and God. Satan claimed to be able to destroy the Church. God asked if he wanted to do it now. Satan said he needed time to prepare, about 75 or 100 years. God said ok. (of course this is paraphrased from memory).

    75 years after the writing of the prayer, we got Bishop Pike, other enemies of the Church, the cultural breakdown and Vatican II.

    Just saying.

    Fr. Mark
     
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  14. Anglo1

    Anglo1 Member

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  15. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I'll have to dig. I believe Martin's The Final Conclave talked about soviet spies at Vatican 2.
     
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  16. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    There's evidence to suggest a concerted drawn out campaign by the then USSR to infiltrate thousands of agents into seminaries.
     
  17. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    These prayers are still recited at the end of the traditional Latin Mass
     
  18. peter

    peter Active Member

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    Including a certain prayer at the end of the RC liturgy does not account for the decline of what was a major part of the Anglican Communion. Although in many senses a failure to adhere to some sort of orthodox standard of the faith does. In the Anglican Communion, the point at which orthodox standards of the faith begun to weaken was the point at which the BCP ceased to be the mainstay of the liturgy (I mean by this traditional versions such as the 1662 and perhaps the 1928, not the modern 1979 version). Some churches have veered more off the path than others. The Church of England for instance does not bless homosexual unions and is in general rather more orthodox than the Episcopal Church.
     
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  19. Botolph

    Botolph Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if that is a great claim!
     
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