What is the future of the Episcopal Church?

Discussion in 'Navigating Through Church Life' started by anglican74, Apr 30, 2015.

  1. Lloyd

    Lloyd New Member

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    Yeah, I can see your point. I disagree about TEC departing from the one holy, apostolic and catholic church however. If you look back at the beginning of the Church of England to recent time I believe you will see that the Roman Catholic Church doesn't consider the Church of England or any Anglican denomination to have proper apostolic succession. And if you go further back I read somewhere that the Eastern Orthodox Church considers itself the ONLY true Catholic Church with proper apostolic succession 'practicing what it understands to be the original faith as passed down from the Apostles'.

    Has TEC left the holy, apostolic and catholic church? No more than the Anglican communion believes it left it when Rome said they are no longer apostolic or catholic and no more than Rome believes it left it when the Eastern Orthodox Church said Rome left the holy, apostolic and catholic church.

    Here I thought we were all Christian.

    I've spent some time reading about GAFCON, the Continuing Anglican Churches, The Episcopal Church, Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, other churches in the Anglican Communion and some of the other protestant denominations. Frankly, I don't see where I agree 100% with any of them. What I see is some are more than willing to persecute whole classes of people, or look away when whole classes of people are being persecuted. Rome ignored what was happening in Nazi Germany with the Jews, in Nigeria and Uganda we have homosexuals being arrested, imprisoned and at one time there was a plan to execute them, we have a wholesale suppression of women throughout a large number of denominations, even in the Anglican Communion. We have what some would call variances from scripture in each denomination, none is perfect. Even the original 12 were imperfect. The beauty of what Christ teaches us is God loves us and has an overwhelming desire to have us return to Him and be forgiven, even the worst of the worst of us. His love for us exceeds our propensity for sin and forgiveness is there for the asking.

    What I do know is pray as I might to God and the Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ my Lord and Saviour, and asking the Blessed Mother to intercede has placed in my heart that where my faith takes me is TEC. And for a lot of reasons if TEC goes out of business, between the Roman Catholic church, a church in the Anglican Communion or the Eastern Orthodox Church I believe I would find myself converting to Roman Catholicism.

    So to get back to being part of the AC being no big deal? Yeah, I have to agree with you, for different reasons. I just can't see myself leaving TEC to be in a church that would align with an organization that accepts the persecution and imprisonment of someone because of sexual orientation. It just doesn't seem like something that Christ would agree with.

    In any case, I hope I have not worn out my welcome here after this post. In the little time I have been on this site, I have learned a great deal and am still learning. It is a great site that I do enjoy.

    God Bless you all.

    O Lamb of God, that takest away the sins of the world,
    Have mercy upon us
    O Lamb of God, that takest away the sins of the world,
    Have mercy upon us
    O Lamb of God, that takest away the sins of the world,
    Grant us thy peace

    O Christ, hear us.
    O Christ, hear us
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
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  2. Rev2104

    Rev2104 Active Member

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    I can see what you saying but at the same time there practices which counter what scripture clearly teaches in the TEC. If your church preaches or condones actions against scripture than I do not think you could be considered part of the one church of christ. You believe in a differnt Christ. I think a big exemple of that is practicing homosexual cleregy or not believing in the bodily resurection. Both things are present in TEC.

    We all have different ideas on a lot of things but scripture has to be the standard.

    If a greek orthoodox wants to say my priest does not have succession fine. He could not say my priest is not faith to Christ and Word.
     
  3. Lloyd

    Lloyd New Member

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    In politics I believe all politics that directly impact an individual, a family or maybe even a community are generally local. Do I feel the Federal government over reaches, sure. Does everything they do impact me negatively? No. I feel the same way about my faith, what impacts me most is what happens in my parish. Matt 18:20

    What happened in the General Convention approving same sex marriages in the church doesn't change my or anyone in my congregations faith and beliefs. We were ALL made in God's image and given free will. Each parish I attend, Episcopal and RC, seems to have a 'personality', a sense of what each will and will not accept regardless of the Canon of a the particular denomination. The Canon is the Canon, but our faith, beliefs and our very salvation belongs to us and is between us and our Lord.

    As for not being part of the body of Christ or believing in a different Christ? I have read a lot of your posts and consider you a brother in Christ, I don't require you to think of me the same way, however I will still love you as a brother in Christ so I say this humbly and without malice. I respect your opinion because I know it comes from your heart and you are certainly entitled to your opinion. But as to judging whether or not I or TEC is within the one church of Christ, I believe that is up to God to judge and I am comfortable leaving that to Him as per scripture.
    Matt 7:1, John 8:7, and Exodus 20:16.

    As for bodily resurrection, we, at least in my Episcopal parish, believe in the creeds. Every word of all three of them including the resurrection of the body.

    May God Bless you, have a great day
     
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  4. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

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    There have always been sinners and even wicked clergy in the church, there are even articles in the AoR about them.
    If the presence of sinners in a church disqualifies it from being a part of the Church of Christ, then no church is a part of it.
     
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  5. Lloyd

    Lloyd New Member

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    Well said....
     
  6. Rev2104

    Rev2104 Active Member

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    I believe when a church body stirs into error it needs to repent.
    Sinning is one thing but sinning and not confessing is another. Leading others into hetrodoxies is even a graver sin.
    The church should curb sin. Not remain and encourage sin.
     
  7. Lloyd

    Lloyd New Member

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    Hi, There were three resolutions voted on at the General Convention in June 20015. The House of Bishops and the House of Deputies (clergy and laity) voted overwhelmingly to change the marriage Canon, modify/add gender neutral marriage rites and to continue to study marriage.

    Presbyterians, Methodists and Evangelical Lutheran churches (some) are also doing same sex marriages. TEC certainly wasn't the first and I believe it won't be the last. I see the courts getting involved to the point where if you are performing civil ceremonies and a same sex couple requests a marriage in your church and it isn't provided and a lawsuit is filed the state could start voiding whatever licenses for those churches are needed to perform civil marriages. Even if there is no money exchanged from the state to the church as part of performing a civil marriage, lawsuits will still cost churches money to defend themselves.

    Potentially being sued into oblivion, or being forced not to perform church weddings, yeah I know separation of church and state, but no one can be sure of how this court will rule. Interesting times are coming after what I think is the inevitable split of GAFCON and the rest of the Anglican Communion factions occurs and the dust settles.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2016
  8. Lowly Layman

    Lowly Layman Well-Known Member

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    That would be an unprecedented invasion by the State into the constitutionally protected affairs of religious associations. But who knows?
     
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  9. Lloyd

    Lloyd New Member

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    Yep, you are right. But the constitution doesn't appear to matter much to the current White House or Supreme Court.....