What are people's opinions on the Personal Ordinariate?

Discussion in 'Questions about Anglicanism' started by Tom, Aug 31, 2017.

  1. Tom

    Tom New Member Anglican

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    As an Anglo-Catholic, who like most Christians whose churches follow Apostolic Succession, I do hope for the reunification of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church (Anglican, Orthodox and Catholic churches under one communion). It just comes down to what theological differences are we prepared to forgo. For me the major issues for not being a Roman Catholic are the doctrines of Papal Infallibility, the immaculate conception, Purgatory and the ecclesiastical issues of celibate clergy, consanguinity laws and the belief that the wedding couple are the celebrants of the sacrament of Holy Matrimony with the Priest being the officiate.

    As a result I am not perfectly content with the Personal Ordinariate as a way to unite Anglicans and Catholics. I am hoping to attend Mass at a Personal Ordinariate parish some time in September as I am still open to the idea.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017
  2. Anne

    Anne Active Member Anglican

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    Yeah, the Ordinariate is not Anglican. It's just appearances.

    Interestingly, I'm okay with most of your list!
     
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  3. Mark

    Mark Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I was with the group who eagerly waited for the Ordinariate with Fr. Christopher Phillips. It looked and sounded good on paper.

    I saw the politics. Good Orthodox priests were ignored because they were not connected to the TEC or they did not have a large enough group the Romans would want to crow about how the Anglicans are coming home.

    Cardinal Wurel and lackey destroyed the chance of an Ordinariate as the Bishops wanted. In none of the countries is the Ordinariate growing. Yes Our Lady of the Atonement has finally joined and is breathing some life into the Chair of St Peter. None of the programs Rome has put in place has really worked.

    Rome is like the borg from Star Trek. You will conform, assimilate and become Roman. The Anglican Use they have created, the liturgy is a mix of various forms.....does not look like Anglicanism. You will have to accept ALL that Rome teaches. The extra biblical and the heresies. Everything the Church in England corrected will have to be abandoned to conform to Rome's view. And no other view is valid.

    I spent many years in Rome. I was approved for re-ordination, even though I was ordained by a Bishop with valid line of succession (per Rome) it was not Roman so no good. Same with confirmation. What they told me and what they did was different.

    Rome will tell you anything to get you to convert. So be very wise and understand that you will be expected to toe the line with their social justice reasoning. Rome is just as rotten as the TEC, they just look better on the outside and hide it much better. Matthew 23:27-28.

    The fellow priests I went to Rome with, we all have returned. My friends who have parishes where large numbers of people left for the Ordinariate have had people returning. Most of the people in the Ordinariate are not cradle Anglicans.

    If you feel the Holy Spirit is leading you to Rome, by all means obey the Holy Spirit. Just know who will cease to be Anglican and will be Roman regardless of what they tell you. The liturgy may remind you of Anglicanism, the theology is definitely Roman.

    Blessings

    Fr. Mark
     
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  4. Philip Barrington

    Philip Barrington Well-Known Member

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    The other part of the issue is that I hear from priest who have joined the ordinariate is that the Romans see them as 2nd class Romans or fake romans or nearly romans and actually have more respect for Anglicans who stay Anglican. I think it ends up in the neither fish nor fowell basket.
     
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  5. Shane R

    Shane R Active Member

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    Mark had a lot of good thoughts.

    One thing that distresses me is the intellectual dishonesty of most of the Ordinariate clergy. They cannot help themselves from disparaging their former ministry as Anglicans and distancing themselves from anything they might have accomplished in those years. I don't believe them when they bring forth their paltry arguments, "Oh, I don't know what I had as an Anglican, but it wasn't the fullness of the faith. I don't know what I accomplished sacramentally, but my orders were invalid." I don't believe a word of that nonsense.

    They have got access to a treasure trove of money which, at least for the ACA guys, is probably a novel experience. I was recruited by them at one point and they promised to throw money at me, 100% seminary tuition and so on. Most of the parishioners were Romans who liked the convenient time of the Mass and didn't know the Anglican use from the Latin. The priest started off every week explaining that his Mass was licit to reassure his mostly unconcerned faithful.

    I thought the Ordinariate would fade away and be absorbed into the larger Roman pool when Jeffrey Steenson retired and they were given a bishop from outside their fold. Whatever hope they have is based on their appeal to Catholics who appreciate the novelty of a Mass that looks rather high (even though I read a paper from +Lopes the other day arguing that the Ordinariate Missal is an expression of the Ordinary Form) compared to the vagrancy of most Novus Ordo celebrations. Ordinariate parishes are not producing any great number of vocations and even those who do arise are forced to learn to serve the Novus Ordo as their primary rite. And they are not exempted from the requirement of priestly celibacy. So there is very little of the 'Anglican patrimony' that makes it through the Roman screen.
     
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  6. peter

    peter Member

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    About the one thing I will say for the Ordinariate is that the liturgy is beautiful and is essentially an Anglo-Catholic style expression of the BCP, similar to the services of the Oxford Movement churches of the 19th century. I'm not going to defend the concept of the Ordinariate or the doctrines of Catholicism, but I can't fault the Ordinariate liturgy. Some groups also offer Evensong from time to time which is a good route to see what they are up to without feeling left out at Communion time.
     
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  7. Magistos

    Magistos New Member Anglican

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    My concern is that the Ordinariate will simply absorb the Anglo-Catholics into the Roman system and not maintain a presence like the other rites (Byzantine, etc.). My reasoning is that without an Anglican rite seminary to produce more priests, within a generation, the specialness and knowledge and "all things Anglican" will fade as general Roman rite priests are assigned to the Ordinariate parishes.
     
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  8. Mark

    Mark Well-Known Member Anglican

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    In the States there is not a seminary for the Ordinariate. A candidate for Holy Orders goes to a Roman seminary with a few special classes to maintain the Anglicanisms. The priests who were approved for re-ordination had to go to re-education classes to unlearn what they had been taught and taught the new that is Rome. I was getting ready for 2 years of Roman education when I realized it was a sham.

    There are those within the ordinariate who will get on Anglican websites and facebook pages to tell everyone how great it is to finally be Roman. That is tongue in cheek. They try to pass themselves off as "fully Anglican" since coming into communion with the Pope.

    The new Bishop for the Chair of St Peter (USA) is a Portuguese Bishop. Never been an Anglican, like Steenson. They hang their hopes on Our Lady of the Atonement. But Fr. Phillips has been removed, so it will be interesting to see how Our Lady of the Atonement fairs and if it will survive. I pray it does, but the Ordinariate does not have any cash, the coffers of Our Lady has well over $1 million. I don't know how long that will last as Rome has had to infuse cash into the UK Ordinariate to keep it afloat.

    Fr. Mark
     
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