Ok, I'm tired of this!!

Discussion in 'Non-Anglican Discussion' started by Gio, Aug 5, 2017.

  1. Gio

    Gio Member

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    Why is everyone hating on homosexuals? One of the main arguments is, in Leviticus. It says man shall not lie with man. What's that key word? LIE! So homosexuality in itself is not a sin, just the sex! I'm sorry, it's just some of my family members are gay and I hate the fact that they are discriminated and made feel inhumane even though they believe in Jesus. Sorry if I came off as mad, basically, what I'm asking is, what do you guys think about homosexuality?
     
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  2. PotterMcKinney

    PotterMcKinney Active Member Typist Anglican

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    Oh boy, here comes this discussion...
     
  3. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I don't see anyone hating on homosexuals... they can now even get 'married', they have the highest possible social prestige in Western societies, and any faithful Christians who don't bake a cake for a gay 'marriage' are immediately arrested, or harrassed, or sued.

    Indeed we cannot even practice our religion in peace, whereas homosexuals have a complete social encouragement to perform their actions (which even you labeled a sin). Have you ever told your gay relatives that performing gay activities is a sin?

    If anything we need to band to protect the right of Christians who are now the victims and persecuted in Western societies. Your perspective is warped and needs correction...
     
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  4. Gio

    Gio Member

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    Umm...
    umm... honestly, where? There is still a lot of discrimination going against homosexuals. Just because they can get married and such doesn't stop them from getting bullied, mainly by other Christians such as you and I.

    Not only that but

    6. The prohibitions in Leviticus don’t apply to Christians. Leviticus condemns male same-sex intercourse, but the entire Old Testament law code has never applied to Christians in light of Christ’s death. Leviticus also condemns eating pork, rabbit, or shellfish, cutting hair at the sides of one’s head, and having sex during a woman’s menstrual period — none of which Christians continue to observe.

    Source: https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/2842044/gay-christians/?source=dam

    I do not know why christians who don't approve of homosexuality go to this quote anyway
     
  5. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    There are many more prohibitions which do apply to Christians. Have you heard of the 10 Commandments?
    The whole of the OT law is divided into ceremonial and moral law. Ceremonial law was abolished by the coming of Christ, while the Moral law is permanent.

    For example the prohibition against sodomy was reiterated by St. Paul:

    “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 6:9–10).

    http://blogs.christianpost.com/conf...xuality-in-1-corinthians-and-1-timothy-12362/

    ===


    Or how about Romans 1:24-27:

    18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

    21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

    24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

    26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
     
  6. Gio

    Gio Member

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    Ok so the Bible condemns homosexual lust, but does it talk about love? As in, no man can marry each other? No? All right then.
     
  7. Gio

    Gio Member

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    may i suggest this video?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=leIcLYj3I3U
     
  8. Gio

    Gio Member

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  9. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Marriage according to Anglican doctrine is #1 for the procreation of children. #2 for a remedy against sin. As sodomy is a sin, gay marriage is not a remedy but an encouragement to sin.
     
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  10. Gio

    Gio Member

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    Did you not watch the videos
     
  11. Ide

    Ide Active Member

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    This is just ridiculous. There is literally no escaping the LGBTQ agenda anywhere, anymore. The church has taught for 2,000 years that marriage is a holy sacrament between a man and a woman. Christ himself praised heterosexual marriage and attended and blessing a wedding between a man and a woman.

    The instance of Leftists that we all accept homosexual/trans/queer agenda and ideology is tiresome. I reject it completely. I do not uphold modernist theology of "individualism", which puts the hedonism and pleasuring of the self at the heart of every decision made. First gays were born "this way" now everybody is on a "gender spectrum" and can change genders at will. Utter garbage and nonsense. This is what happens when you have no faith in objective reality or goodness- you fall for slick sounding post-modern nihilist tripe.

    The pushing of this agenda is so damaging to the church. Just look at all the splitting and destruction going on in numerous denominations over the instance that we re-write scripture and tradition. Thankfully there are some churches that have held fast to Biblical principles against modernism.

    I used to scoff at those who said that gay people just wanted to live as equals and thought that Christians were crazy for opposing "gay rights". Now with the push of enforcing gay or trans behavior on children, I realize that I was so wrong. This is not about simply live and let live, it's about resisting degenerate behavior in our society, churches and families. I appreciate that there are good, moral gay and lesbian people in the world, but I am not going to be silent about accepting an agenda which normalizes and celebrates their behavior.
     
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  12. Aidan

    Aidan Well-Known Member

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    Who is defending traditional family values? Everywhere I turn I see Pride this, Pride that. Because of its attack on traditional family values, homosexuality may lead to societal breakdown as the family has been at the heart of social functioning. The family is the corner stone on which societies and nations are built
     
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  13. Gavin Bedggood

    Gavin Bedggood New Member

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    I read this thread and I kept thinking "what would Jesus say". I don't know much, but I think he was a great and wise man who thought that love and compassion triumphed over all other thoughts. I might well be wrong....

    To mis quote the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.... Jesus said "wouldn't it be wonderful if everyone was nice to each other for a change"
     
  14. Thinkingaloud

    Thinkingaloud New Member

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    That's sad if they've felt inhumanely treated. Could you elaborate on your family's experiences?
     
  15. Thinkingaloud

    Thinkingaloud New Member

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    One problem with the video is it doesn't deal with the positive message in the Bible about sexual relationships. Christ himself defined marriage as between a man and a woman and based it in the Genesis creation account. Nowhere is homosexuality approved of and marriage is consistently defined between a man and a woman. I'm no scholar, but recently the Church of Scotland has debated same sex marriage. Interestingly theologians on both sides agree that the Bible prohibits same sex relationships. That seems pretty conclusive to me

    Thought this link gave an interesting answer about Arsenkoitos word:

    https://www.crossway.org/articles/what-does-arsenokoitai-mean/
     
  16. Thinkingaloud

    Thinkingaloud New Member

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    Christ was indeed loving and compassionate, and we should be too. But part of the problem is today many people think being loving is to approve of whatever makes someone happy. C S Lewis commented on this better than I can:

    http://www.cslewisinstitute.org/God_is_Love

    By the goodness of God we mean nowadays almost exclusively His lovingness; and in this we may be right. And by Love, in this context, most of us mean kindness—the desire to see others than the self happy; not happy in this way or in that, but just happy. What would really satisfy us would be a God who said of anything we happened to like doing, 'What does it matter so long as they are contented?' We want, in fact, not so much a Father in Heaven as a grandfather in heaven—a senile benevolence who, as they say, 'liked to see young people enjoying themselves' and whose plan for the universe was simply that it might be truly said at end of each day, 'a good time was had by all'. Not many people, I admit, would formulate a theology in precisely those terms: but a conception not very different lurks at the back of many minds. I do not claim to be an exception: I should very much like to live in a universe which was governed on such lines. But since it is abundantly clear that I don't, and since I have reason to believe, nevertheless, that, God is Love, I conclude that my conception of love needs correction.

    I might, indeed, have learned, even from the poets, that Love is something more stern and splendid than mere kindness: that even the love between the sexes is, as in Dante, ‘a lord of terrible aspect’. There is kindness in Love: but Love and kindness are not coterminous, and when kindness (in the sense given above) is separated from the other elements of Love, it involves a certain fundamental indifference to its object, and even something like contempt of it. Kindness consents very readily to the removal of its object – we have all met people whose kindness to animals is constantly leading them to kill animals lest they should suffer. Kindness, merely as such, cares not whether its object becomes good or bad, provided only that it escapes suffering. As Scripture points out, it is bastards who are spoiled: the legitimate sons, who are to carry on the family tradition, are punished. (Hebrews 12:8) It is for people whom we care nothing about that we demand happiness on any terms: with our friends, our lovers, our children, we are exacting and would rather see them suffer much than be happy in contemptible and estranging modes. If God is Love, He is, by definition, something more than mere kindness. And it appears, from all the records, that though He has often rebuked us and condemned us, He has never regarded us with contempt. He has paid us the intolerable compliment of loving us, in the deepest, most tragic, most inexorable sense.
     
  17. Gio

    Gio Member

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    Well, the only person in my family that's gay is my uncle, he's 30 years old, but most of the discrimination he faced was when he was young, he was bullied a LOT, and even now when he walks with his boyfriend he receives hateful comments.
     
  18. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Friend, Jesus was a harsh judge of sin and sinners... he whipped the idolaters, demanded repentance and he himself died for sins... the whole of Scripture speaks of sin and death and rebirth and crucifixion and salvation... it is a hard Gospel. Please don't buy into the hippie Jesus image promoted by the liberals who themselves don't read the Scripture or the works of the Fathers or Divines
     
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  19. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    It may have something to do with the country you live in, and the culture there. It has nothing with the Gospel. I know of various tribal nations around the world who have very hateful opinions on this on that... if you're white, if you're black, if you're not Christian, if you're too Christian, if you're gay, if you're not gay enough.

    There is plenty of hate around the world. Currently in the United States it is the gay people who are hateful toward anyone who's not them. Also we receive hate if we are 'too Christian'. Perhaps in your country it's different?

    But neither circumstance changes the fact that the Gospel, God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ, not to mention all of the saints and apostles, have a very clear teaching on what is marriage and how we should behave in the bedroom. God sees us in the bedroom even if no one else does, and he judges us, or blesses us, depending on what we do. He has told us what he will judge, and what he will bless. It is up to us then to act accordingly...
     
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  20. Philip Barrington

    Philip Barrington Well-Known Member

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    Nietzsche "Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you."​

    When my sister invited me to her wedding, there was a great trepidation on the part of a number of her friends that I would say something awful. And I was amazed a the number of my friends who were ready to tell me that I could not possibly go to my sisters wedding. Indeed I have a brother who has a very strongly homophobic persona, and it took three years and a major family event for them to be in the same space.

    The witness of scripture affirms marriage, though at the same time I believe that the notion and character of marriage has changed (grown and developed over time). I have been reading a bit of Tudor History (including the king's great matter), and the marriages of Mary Tudor (Henry VIII's Younger Sister), and Margaret Dowager Queen of Scotland (Henry VIII's Older Sister) and it seems clear that either they had different values in relation to marriage or a very imperfect fulfilment of the ideals. The Book of Common Prayer 1661/2 (BCP) sets out the purposes of marriage:
    • As a sacrament of God's love for his people.
    • That children might be born and nourished.
    • The good order of society.
    • The proper expression of natural instincts and affections.
    • Mutual society help and comfort.
    For myself I could not help but be overjoyed that my sister had found herself a relationship which made her feel safe and free. So yes, I did go, and I concluded amongst the things that God had given me in life was a fabulous (ok sometimes a little frustrating) but genuinely fabulous sister and I have a duty to cherish the gift.

    I smiled when I read this, thinking of the number of people who think "wouldn't it be wonderful if everyone would change". I don't think this stuff is easy for any us. I think for any of us who have family members (who bat for the other side) there are some real challenges. I know my sister's marriage has helped her become a gentler and kinder person.

    Side note: It has just been tested in Court in Australia and we will not let same sex couples who have married overseas divorce. It seems that whilst the relationship is treated as a 'void marriage' it can not legally be undone.​

    The Gospel endorses hospitality and kindness. And whilst there are bible passages which clearly speak against homosexual acts, one thing that does not get endorsed is homophobia.

    Pray that we all may become gentler and kinder.
     
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