New to this whole thing

Discussion in 'New Members' started by Rev2104, Jul 4, 2014.

  1. Rev2104

    Rev2104 Active Member

    Posts:
    169
    Likes Received:
    56
    Religion:
    Anglican
    I was a lapsed catholic and could not go back to it. For a varity of reasons. So I started to embrace a new christian tradition.
    That being said I have no idea where to find info online. One of the things that makes me uneasy about my found anglicanism is the horrid divisions everywhere. So finding info on the web seems rough and confusing at times.
    So any good blogs, face book groups, you tube channels, twitter, etc.
    Lastly personal question. What is your favorite modern anglican book. thanks
     
  2. Fr. Bill

    Fr. Bill Member

    Posts:
    43
    Likes Received:
    31
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Anglican Christian
    Adrian,

    The English Reformation produced a form of Protestant (or, as others will insist, non-Roman) Christianity that is distinguishable from other Christian communities coming out of the Reformation (and also distinguishable from the Romans!) by the relative primitiveness of its doctrinal standards. By "primitive" I do not mean "crude," but rather "fundamental" or "early" or "foundational." Ostensibly, this meant (or used to mean) that in matters not addressed by these primitive standards, one might contend for various doctrinal formulations (e.g. in eschatology) so long as they did not contradict these primitive standards.

    Contrast this approach to what came out of Trent and became enshrined in the Roman Catechism, for example, or in some of the Protestant doctrinal standards such as the Westminster Confession of Faith. The Anglican standards were the Apostles' and Nicene Creeds, the Athanasian Creed, and the Definition of Chalcedon, along with the Articles of Religion. The Articles themselves — compared to these other doctrinal compilations to come out of the Reformation — are "fuzzy" in places, especially when you read them in the context of the doctrinal controversies raging in the Western Church during this period.

    The result? Compared to others, the English Reformation created a big tent. In the modern scene, Anglican parishes in various places will look/feel different during their worship. On one end, you might find a parish that worships with Morning Prayer and "ritual ornamentation" and vestments so spartan that the effect is almost indistinguishable from a very conservative Methodist morning worship! In other parish, a sleepy attendee might think he was in a High Pontifical Mass in a Roman church. I'm told by others in my town that the Sunday worship in the parish I serve is "higher" or "more liturgical" than the local Roman parish. I can't confirm this, of course, as I've not attended a mass in the local parish. But, I trust the assessment of the ones who tells me this.

    All this to say that the "horrid divisions" you mention need to be evaluated in light of this big tent. I don't mean there are no divisions, nor that some of the ones we see are not horrid. Some of the differences from parish to parish or jurisdiction to jurisdiction are not horrid at all. They're simply different expressions of Prayer Book worship to come out of the English Reformation as a consequence of its big-tent-ness.
     
    Peteprint likes this.
  3. Rev2104

    Rev2104 Active Member

    Posts:
    169
    Likes Received:
    56
    Religion:
    Anglican
    Thank you father,
    Let me explain what i mean by divisions. Since the 1960s christianity has been under siege by modernism and eccunism. Pressured to change to modern times and re think traditions and beliefs. This is most clear in the V2 for the catholics and the popes that came out of the council. Christianity become one of many religions all equal. The catholic rites that endured since the earliest church fathers where changed. The whole mentality of the church changed. From my understanding this attack of the liberals hit most mainline denominations in america. Lutherans where hit hard, as where the Anglican church. To the extent that we see churches embracing non biblical forms of worship(heck there has been a circus mass in the catholic church), teaching on family and human dignity that is counter to the bible, and even a rejection at times of core christian theology. This is clear in the episcopalian church in america, the biggest most public face of the Anglican church. So when i say this horrid division it is the division that some christians have created that severs themselves from the historical church and cuts them off from the Living God.
    I Personally like the big tent approach, even if I personally am a Latin Mass sort of catholic when it comes to liturgy. I like that even those who do not like such formal services are embracing a historical church and theology. This is better than the liberal or mega church approach. The christian faith has little to do with me or you, it all to with God. Some much of the christian world is focused on themselves these days, focused so much on pleasing this world. This world has always been a pilgrimage for us, they nailed Christ to a cross. We can not conform to this age.
     
    Peteprint likes this.
  4. Fr. Bill

    Fr. Bill Member

    Posts:
    43
    Likes Received:
    31
    Country:
    USA
    Religion:
    Anglican Christian
    Well, Adrian, you've certainly got your radar tuned so that you accurately detect the spirit of the age working within just about every Christian community one can mention. What makes it all so confusing for some is that the Christian worship can confuse one who looks at just the surface appearance of it. So many Episcopal parishes will use Rite I which can easily convey the idea that the parish is truly orthodox, while everyone present has a different notion of what the words in the liturgy mean, picked from a smorgasbord of late 20th Century theological novelties. At the other extreme, traditional worship forms are abandoned entirely, or so adulterated with clown costumes, or country-and-western costumes, or rock-concert paraphernalia that a Christian even a century ago would never recognize the production as Christian at all!

    Frankly, I think you're not likely to find a refuge in any Christian denomination per se. Some mainline Protestant denominations still harbor a few congregations that struggle to remain true to the forms and confession of their fathers, but finding these can be chancey. Other communions are either battlegrounds (Missouri Synod Lutherans, Presbyterian Church in America, even the Southern Baptists!) or have embraced enough compromises with the world so as to generously sow tares and thorns in their own fields (the ACNA, for example, in its irenic toleration of women's ordination to the presbyterate, is sedately sipping cyanide) .

    And, then, the whole "contemporary worship" hoohaw is remarkable insofar as it demonstrates that no one — not the innovators, not the "defenders" of tradition — seem to have any coherent idea about how forms and rites communicate a message independent of (and, nowadays largely in contradiction to) the texts borne by those forms and rites.

    Is this frustrating? Of course! Is it impossible to find a refuge? No, though you may find the search tedious.

    My daughter and son-in-law's experience is, I fear, typical. My daughters are all "cradle Anglicans," though their mongrel parents are not. My son-in-law is also my godson, and much of his Christian discipleship in the years he dated my second daughter, was in our parish. When he spent a year in Iraq in the Army, he found the Protestant services near to intolerable. I wrote to him, advising him to find the Roman chaplain, to explain his predicament, and to ask if he might attend Roman mass, without taking communion. The Roman chaplain was understanding and gracious, thanks be to God. He even offered to communion my son-in-law.

    After his discharge, he and my daughter married and went off to finish undergraduate school in West Texas. All the Episcopal churches in the town were liberal. So, they eventually split their time between a very traditional Roman parish and an Orthodox parish, not communing in either. Then they were both off to Cambridge in the UK. Surely they could find an orthodox Anglican parish, right? Nope. But, then, they stumbled onto a British Lutheran parish in communion with the LCMS here in the states. They were received into that fellowship and continue to worship and serve in the parish while my godson finishes his doctoral studies in Medieval church history.

    And, so, this is likely the sort of trek a traditional, orthodox Anglican is going to take during these times. It's not quite "any port in a storm," but almost.
     
    KateOG likes this.
  5. Rev2104

    Rev2104 Active Member

    Posts:
    169
    Likes Received:
    56
    Religion:
    Anglican
    Too me the liturgy is the heart and soul of a christian experience. It is the way the Church was instituted. It was liturgical cause it pleased God. It centered the whole service on him. It is in this form we take our lord and savior in the most personal why we can. On our knees. Ideas of novelty should never be instituted in the liturgy. It is that selfish sin part of out selves that go lets go make church a rock concert or a clown show. Let make Church for all those who hate God.
    The liturgy is a prayer, how we pray is what we believe. If stand and clap waving my arms around while listening to "cool" music says how i view God. If i am my knees begging forgiveness cause I know what and who I am before the judgment seat of Christ that says something about how I view God.
    I am sinner. God forgive me, my brothers and sisters pray for me.