Justification by faith alone?

Discussion in 'Theology and Doctrine' started by Scottish Knight, Jul 14, 2012.

  1. Andy Cothran

    Andy Cothran Active Member

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    Jerome you must chastise with charity and charity must be defined by the chastisement that you give .:p
     
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  2. Gordon

    Gordon Well-Known Member

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    Ahaaaa now Faith is something I do have and also a sore chest after all the thumbing I have been doing to it.... :)
     
  3. Adam Warlock

    Adam Warlock Well-Known Member

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    "mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa..."
     
  4. mark1

    mark1 Active Member

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    I must say that it is one of foundations of Protestant traditions to believe in justification by faith alone. And many, many do NOT believe in the perserverence of the saints. Even my Baptist mentor shared that could reject God after having first accepting HIm, although this is rare. John Wesley has written much on the subject, since he debated the issue so often. Lutherans do not generally teach perserverence. Within Anglicanism, I suppose Calvinists teach perserverence. In our church we use Holy Trinity's alpha course in teach newcomers, where the answer to perseverance is a resounding NO.

    And BTW, I have always taught that we are saved by GRACE alone through FAITH alone in CHRIST JESUS alone. The alones were added by Luther to Paul's explanation to the Church at Ephesus.

    We seem to have at least the following issues separation us regarding justification by faith alone.

    1) PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS
    See above. I stand with Wesley. We can give back the free gift of faith.

    2) IRRESISTABILITY OF FAITH
    Do we do anything? Do we even cooperate with the Holy Spirit? Calvinists would say "no" lest we reject the sovereignty of God. Arminians and Wesleyans and Catholics answer yes, considering cooperation with the Holy Spirit to be critical to our salvation.

    3) IS JUSTIFICATION A LIFE LONG PROCESS
    There are those who consider justification and sanctification to BOTH be a life long process. My understanding is that this is the Catholic and Orthodox understanding. While I understand that justification can be a process rather than an event, I (as many do) separate the processes of justification, sanctification and glorification. I WAS saved on the Cross. I WAS saved when I accepted that free gift (justification), I AM BEING SAVED (converted, conformed) each day of my life through the work of the Holy Spirit (sanctification), I hope that I WILL BE SAVED when Jesus comes in glory to judge the living and the dead (glorification). Some would add that before I can accept the free gift, I must be given the free gift (or a blank check to pay my sin debt as Nicky Gumbel would have it) by the Holy Spirit. I believe that these distinctions are in a large part semantic and have divided churches for centuries.

    4) THE PLACE OF WORKS
    Saving faith produces good works. The elect, those who have accepted (or not rejected) the free gift of faith will produce good works, else the faith is a dead faith and not a saving faith. We cannot be justified by good works. The Articles teach that good works are the product of faith. Of course, we can be sanctified by good works (as I indicated above, this for some is also included in salvation).

    5) FAITH ALONE or FAITH AND CHURCH or FAITH AND SACRAMENTS
    Does justification require baptism? Does it require the other sacraments? Does it require being a member of the Church? Are we clear in answering this question whether we are discussing heaven and hell issues (justification for me) or sanctification?

    6) DOUBLE PREDESTINATION OR NOT
    This disagreement is somewhat off-point, however it often brought up in the same discussion. Any semblance of acceptance by man is taken away by those who believe in double predestination (man is born for heaven or hell, with choices predetermined). Again, part of this is semantic. We all accept the scriptural doctrine of predestination. Personally, I stand with Wesley. I cannot accept that any man or woman is created and will definitely go to hell.


     
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  5. Anna Scott

    Anna Scott Well-Known Member

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    SK,
    I think it is difficult to speak of justification and sanctification separately. As I said before, we are really discussing salvation. So, I think we have to consider the whole picture, which is what you are doing---and why you can see the Sacraments as "salvic."
     
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  6. Gordon

    Gordon Well-Known Member

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    Well said my little Latin speaking buddy....
     
  7. Anna Scott

    Anna Scott Well-Known Member

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    Adam,
    Very, very Anglo Catholic. lol :D