How to defend the belief only men should be ordained?

Discussion in 'Sacraments and Holy Orders' started by Anglican04, Dec 17, 2017.

  1. Anglican04

    Anglican04 Active Member Anglican

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    Hey lads :)

    I attend TEC because I have no ACNA parishes near me, and you know how they are (liberal/SJW). I can defend my orthodox Anglican views on contraception, abortion, homosexuality, etc. But I'm not really sure how to defend against women's ordination as a deaconess, or priest, or even worse, a bishop(ess?)? How would I go about defending this belief? I have a lovely deaconess at my parish who is really kind and I don't want to hurt her feelings and the priest at my parish has a wife that is also a priest.... To top it off the deaconess offered to be my God- mother if I get baptized there.

    Any thoughts/ replies would be appreciated :discuss:
     
  2. Peteprint

    Peteprint Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Hello Anglican04. There are numerous resources making the argument against WO, but as has been seen, even in the ACNA, those who accept it cannot be swayed. Like the debate between monergists and synergists, I find such debates useless, and have wasted so much precious time and energy arguing with others over these issues. For those seeking to know the arguments of each side, the internet provides almost limitless resources. My advice to you would be to hold to your orthodox beliefs and avoid entering into debate with those holding opposing views; it will drain you spiritually and accomplish nothing.
     
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  3. Anglican04

    Anglican04 Active Member Anglican

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    Thanks Peteprint!
     
  4. Mark

    Mark Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Anglican04.

    Holy Scripture gives us the qualifications for deacon, priest and bishop. It says you must be male. Found in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1.

    I agree with Peteprint's advice to you. You are in the TEC and the TEC on many subjects abandoned scripture long ago. It is not worth the
    drain to engage them. They will not listen.

    The ACNA is now fighting WO, and it is not going well for the orthodox. We are starting to see the beginnings of a pro-homosexual movement within
    certain parts of the ACNA and in certain dioceses. A not so recent discussion on homosexuals and adopting children came up. The pro-WO's came
    down on allowing homosexuals to adopt children. When pushed some would not condemn the act of homosexuality as it is condemned in scripture in both the "Old" and "New" Testaments.

    Even my jurisdiction, The REC, on the priest face book chat page has disturbing conversations between priests. Priests who are concerned about our continued association with the ACNA, are starting to be "taken to the wood shed" by priest in leadership positions. As usually happens, with a health
    body comes into contact with a virus, the odds of getting sick increase the longer you are exposed. Same with an orthodox Anglican jurisdiction like the REC. The longer we are associated with the ACNA, the greater the odds of being infected with heresy.

    Blessings.

    Fr. Mark
     
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  5. Anglican04

    Anglican04 Active Member Anglican

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    Ughh man! I don't see why anyone would join the ACNA to support WO when there's the Episcopal Church... Orthodox Anglicanism seems to be dying in North America. :( By the time I'm 18 I wonder where things will be. Thank you Father.
     
  6. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Agreed with these parts of what you said. In addition to the legion of arguments from Scripture, the male only OT priesthood; the male-only Apostles chosen by Christ, the male-only historic Church, and the male-only Anglican tradition, you have arguments from natural law -- priesthood is fatherhood, and trying to ordain women into the role of a spiritual father is a supremely destructive act which subverts God's creation. So far I'm saying nothing that others on this site haven't said.

    But on this part of your post I nearly spit my coffee out. I didn't expect this depressing and utterly unwarranted out-of-left-field post. Are one-off personal anecdotes now a valid basis for some depressing personal theory? I think not. There is absolutely no evidence of ACNA adopting or promoting or even inclining toward any of the things you list. You really should know better than to instill doubt and subvert faith in young Anglicans, by promoting unwarranted personal anecdotes. The Taskforce on the Family is making no plans to include gay marriage as something blessed by God. In fact the ACNA has split off from TEC on the basis of this rejection of sodomy, so an opposition to the gay agenda lies at the very core of all the bishops and theologians currently in power in the ACNA.

    I'm going to go into a rant on this paragraph as well.

    You've phrased it in a deceptive way, as if some REC priests 'noticed' the promotion of gay agenda in the ACNA (which doesn't exist, but let's play along), and for this resistance to the gay agenda were taken to the woodshed by their superiors. That is deceptively worded and could not be further from the truth. I know that you are ordained and deception was the furthest from your intent, so my hypothesis is that some deep-rooted grump and grouch has gotten the better of you. It is sinful to despair in this manner, and therefore I would suggest repentance and contrition; priests need to repent as much as anybody else. It is not spiritually well to go around depressing people with hearsay anecdotes and unwarranted rumors.

    So let's talk about the REC. Since I'm in the REC and travel quite a bit, I've managed to gather a good deal of info on the REC and it's interfacings with the wider ACNA. There is a small Anglo-Catholic contingent within the REC who have always felt more at home in the Continuum than within the ACNA structure that is being formed. ACNA is a large tent and it is coalescing around the gospel and an intent to chart a passionately Anglican course in a hostile anti-Christian culture. They are united around this. Their goal is mission, revitalization, energy, growth. With it comes the looser attention to precise details in some corners (no question about that). But to an Anglo-Catholic in the Continuum, those details, those Traditions of the Church (and often the Roman church) are themselves the Gospel, rather than being accessories to the Gospel. These people will die for the right color of tunic, the right seasonal liturgical colors, and when they forget themselves, for the opinions of Benedict XVI on topic X Y or Z. These people live in an unreal fantasy world. This explains why the Continuum is dying out. In the next generation there will likely be no one left in the Continuing, non-ACNA churches.

    All this doesn't deter the aforementioned wing of the REC. They would rather fight over the right seasonal colors, than fight for mission and evangelizing their neighbors. There are almost no REC efforts in planting churches. And I say this as a faithful son of the REC.

    So long story short, if you associate with those kinds of people Fr Mark, you will know that due to their aesthetic allegiances to the Continuum (despite all its failures), they will take every opportunity to backbite the ACNA and look for any signs of it being unwell.

    On this, the REC leadership is resolutely opposed. The course charted by Presiding Bishops Grote and Sutton is resolutely to embrace the ACNA and help it from within. You may have heard of a grumbling Anglo Catholic priest complaining about this, and he was likely (and rightly) suppressed by his bishop for this schismatic mindset.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017

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