Please answer the poll and explain your answer(s). I have heard of Episcopal Churches that have become unorthodox. I'm curious what people's actual experience has been.
Here is a reply I made previously to the thread: When the church goes too far. . . . My story is similar to some of the ones reported above. I was attending an Episcopal church for several years. However, as someone stated above, the church left me long before I left it. Everything would have been fine with the liturgy, music, and mid-week communion services, if only the new rector would have kept his opinions to himself during the services. But the new rector kept inserting liberal comments whenever he could. I don't know. Maybe he was under some compulsion to get such comments in the audio, video, and written records. I went and talked with him, and we ended up arguing about church history, theology, Scripture, meaning of liturgy, prayer, and so forth. After I acknowledged my traditional views, my eyes opened and I began to see that what once was, now was no more inside this former sacred place.So I left, and not having any community Sacramental options available except the Roman Catholic church, I looked around and found some good non-Sacramental fellowships. However, I always left the non-Sacramental services knowing my soul was missing something it needed. Then the ACNA planted a church in our small community. I am resolved to do what I can to help the new ACNA church stay.EDIT: I did not mention this in the reply to other thread, however, the new rector seemed to hold to the Memorial view of the Eucharist. The new rector may possibly hold to the Spiritual Presence of Christ--however, I really could not get him to comment specifically on this. The rector did say, however, that he did not hold to the Physical Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. My personal view is that Christ is both Spiritually and Physically Present in the Eucharist....Scottish Monk
Andrea, I'm also a Confirmed Episcopalian attending an orthodox Parish. We are High Church Anglo Catholics and very conservative. Anna
I'm not episcopalian, but I do know a number of episcopalian churches here flaunt their liberalness. However I have had personal experience with more evangelical anglicans here. The leader of our chool scripture union was the local episcopalian youth pastor and he was excellent, my church does also have connections with an evangelical episcopal church, so I know there are some good ones left
I was asking more about orthodoxy as opposed liberal vs. conservative. It is possible to either liberal or conservative and at the same time orthodox, or unorthodox for that matter.
Oh that's interesting. I always saw liberalism as the opposite of orthodoxy. Can you define what yu mean by orthodox? The liberal churches were teaching things opposed in the Bible, hence I equated them with being unorthodox, the evangelical conservatives I'd encountered were orthodox to me in the sense that they hold up traditional basic christian teachings and morality
Orthodox is how do I explain it free of the heresies such as Arianism, doesn't teach against the creeds, and teaches that Jesus was fully man and fully God that kind of thing. Most of the time when a conservative says that liberals are teaching things opposed to the Bible or vice versa they disagree with each others interpretations of Scripture. The Anglican/Episcopal Church is about scripture, tradition, and reason or at least that's the slogan given out a lot. We are Evangelical and Catholic. You say your not Anglican, and you say you've never been to these churches. You just say they flaunt their "liberalness." I think your judgement may be a bit premature.
When episcopal churches have a massive poster like this outside their building for all to see, I'd say they're flaunting it:
which you took from the Pink News service. Gay marriage is a separate issue and not what this thread is about. Bye the way you are in Scotland. TEC is not in Scotland.
I don't go because I live in Australia, hate to say this but there are other places on the planet other then North America.... LOL
I realize this trust me, and a discussion of the entire Anglican Communion may be a good one. The reason I am trying to address the TEC is because, of all the stories I've heard about the unorthodoxy afflicting many of them. I'm not saying the other Anglican Churches aren't having struggles, but there is even talk of TEC getting kicked out of the communion. I really just wanted to know what peoples actual personal experiences with the TEC in particular.
I'm a member of an orthodox Episcopal Church. Theologically, my parish is orthodox/conservative. That being said, the political beliefs of the laity is quite diverse. I've been to a handful of what i'd call "gay affirming" or "inclusive" parishes that seemed quite orthodox, besides the "gay" issue(although, hard to tell on only one or two visits). Politics is something that i've never heard mentioned in any Episcopal services or in any sermons. I guess I would classify these parishes as "moderate," they may be in "error" but certainly not heretical. I've also heard of a number of horror stories, regarding some Episcopal parishes. It seems that there are clergy out there who seem to think that every sermon must be about promoting progressive liberal politics. I saw on one blog where an Episcopalian was thinking about leaving his parish because the new rector only preaches on the environment....every sermon is on the environment! I can't tell you how widespread such nonsense is in TEC, but it is there. From what i've read, such nonsense use to be rare, but these types of things seem to be gaining some steam in TEC in some places. Adam, one of the posters here, recently posted a thread on an unorthodox Episcopal parish he visited.
Yeah Adam's thread kind of gave me the idea to start this thread. Another reason I've started this thread is that there are plenty of online bloggers and other things you can find on the internet where people are saying the Episcopal Church is becoming heretical, so I was really curious about what people's personal experiences were. That's not a shot at the your mention of the blog. It adds to the conversation.
I experience the Episcopal church where I worship as quite orthodox. If I did not, I likely would be elsewhere.
The Episcopal church where I was baptized and confirmed was moderate, but I listened to the GC (oh, technology these days) and the bishops didn't mention scripture, only their experiences. I decided right then and there that I needed to get out of the TEC. I went to the Catholic Church. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get past some of their doctrines. There is an Episcopal church right up the street and I emailed the priest as to whether it was a mostly orthodox parish. He returned to me that it was true to what the bishop wanted (very unorthodox).
I have never been to an Episcopal Church. I am Church of England. I have never attended an Orthodox Church and know of none in the Anglican Communion. I have attended many "Apostolic congregations of faithful people" though, where the pure Word of God is preached. By that I mean the Gospel teachings of Jesus Christ, The Word that was in the beginning with God, are regularly read and preached to the congregation and are individually assimilated and applied in daily living. XIX. Of the Church The visible Church of Christ is a congregation of faithful people, in the which the pure Word of God is preached, and the Sacraments be duly ministered according to Christ's ordinance in all those things that of necessity are requisite to the same. As the Church of Jerusalem, Alexandria, and Antioch, have erred; so also the Church of Rome hath erred, not only in their living and manner of Ceremonies, but also in matters of Faith. XX. Of the Authority of the Church The Church hath power to decree Rites or Ceremonies, and authority in Controversies of Faith: And yet it is not lawful for the Church to ordain any thing that is contrary to God's Word written, neither may it so expound one place of Scripture, that it be repugnant to another. Wherefore, although the Church be a witness and a keeper of holy Writ, yet, as it ought not to decree any thing against the same, so besides the same ought it not to enforce any thing to be believed for necessity of Salvation. The "Anglican" i.e. Church of England church and it's overseas communions, is not and has never been Orthodox. It is "Apostolic" and "Biblical". Orthodoxy implies a rigid adherence to tradition and an obsession with preserving the status quo as if our understanding of the meaning of scripture is absolute and fully comprehensive, and that God has nothing more to say to us through that medium than simply "Do as you have been told by the church authorities when they interpret the scriptures". I believe such an attitude to scripture is incommensurate with a proper understanding of the teachings and character of Jesus Christ Our Lord. We are told to seek The Truth, which is Christ Himself, that "The Truth shall set us free". Jn.14:6, Jn.8:32. .
Whether or not God has anything to say to us privately, he has nothing more to say for the public doctrine and belief and revelation of his Word, other than what has been written in the sacred Scriptures which has been commented on by the Church. It’s not a matter of what it implies. It implies different things to different people. What it means is Right Doctrine. Ortho-Doxia. Just like it’s corollary: orthopraxy, right action. Orthodoxy and orthopraxy are the two cornerstones of Anglicanism.
Who said anything about private opinions or revelations. The Church is compelled to adhere to no doctrine which is not commensurate with The Word. What has been commented on by the Church is still subject to reinterpretation in the light of current understanding and research. We are not 'Rule Followers' we are 'Christ Followers'. Any 'doctrine', no matter how piously held, which conflicts with the mind of Christ, may be a falsely applied doctrine. The only difficulty with that concept is how well we can discern 'the mind of Christ'. For that we have Scripture, Tradition, Common sense, and The Holy Spirit. The poor at determining the mind of Christ will unfortunately always be with us. Doctrine is for the restraint of the nonspiritual, unbelieving person. Those who walk in the Spirit, with the mind of Christ, no longer need the 'pedantic schoolmaster' of the law. 1 Cor.2:16, Phil.2:5, 1 Pet.4:1. "Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor". Gal.3:24-25. .