Bishop Lawrence Is Out of The Episcopal Church

Discussion in 'Anglican and Christian News' started by mark1, Oct 17, 2012.

  1. mark1

    mark1 Active Member

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    http://www.diosc.com/sys/images/documents/tec/tec_restriction_of_ministry.pdf

    http://www.diosc.com/sys/index.php

    The Diocese has formally pulled out of the Episcopal Church after the Bishop was declared to have abandoned the disciplines of the Church. The withdrawal was automatic after the formal notification to Bishop Lawrence, based on previous resolutions of the Standing Committee.

    The diocese has its annual clergy conference set for early November and now a convention set for mid-November.
     
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  2. The Hackney Hub

    The Hackney Hub Well-Known Member

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    It's a sad day.
     
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  3. Evensong

    Evensong New Member

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    Though this will not seem very helpful to my episcopal brethren, take heart:

    "Wherever the bishop shall be, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

    One bishop contains the fullness of the priesthood of Christ which overlooks, mediates, and advocates for us. Unity is essential, but so is integrity, conscience, and the Gospel. Let this be a clarion call of service to the Lord, and integrity for His Cross and Commandments.

    You have my prayers, at least...
     
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  4. Aaytch Barton

    Aaytch Barton Active Member

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    It seems to me that instead of being sad about the situation with Bp. Lawrence, we should say something like "Praise God, we're all in the Wilderness now!"



    This quotation from St. Ignatius of Antioch is actually drawn from 1 Peter 2:25. It is not referring to a human bishop but rather to Jesus Christ himself. Specifically, the words are: "For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls." In other words, wherever Jesus is, there is the Church. Then there's this regarding human bishops as the validation of the Church... St. Benard saith: "what availeth it, if they be chosen in order, and live out of order?"
     
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  5. Adam Warlock

    Adam Warlock Well-Known Member

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    Really, really sorry to hear this
     
  6. anglican74

    anglican74 Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I am sorry to hear this. But did I read that right, did the "Presiding Bishop" expel not just Bishop Lawrence but the whole SC diocese? In other words, they're setting up a convention in November to try and start up a brand new SC diocese for the TEC?
     
  7. mark1

    mark1 Active Member

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    The Presiding Bishop accepted the findings that Bishop Lawrence has abandoned the Episcopal Church, its canon and Discipline. She informed Bishop Lawrence that he should cease acting as a bishop of TEC. The Diocese of South Carolina had already passed resolutions that if this happened, then the Diocese no longer recognizes the authority of the Presiding Bishop and would no longer be affiliated with TEC. The resolutions also called for an immediate convention (outside of TEC) should this eventuality take place. The Protestant Episcopal Church of South Carolina has existed as a diocese since before TEC existed.

    The Presiding Bishop will need to assess whether to call a TEC convention. I suspect that she will wait until the dust settles in a couple of months, so that she knows what parishes she has left. I would expect that the two South Carolina TEC diocese would be merged. I would note that the Presiding has been working closely with the Bishop of Upper Carolina for some time.

    The bishop and our clergy have shielded us from this whole mess for a couple of years. There is almost no open discussion. Leaders and members have understood that our rector will deal with all aspects of the issue. The bishop was at our church last weekend, with nothing mentioned. I guess that it was his last act as a bishop within TEC other than to inform the Presiding Bishop that her action could not be kept confidential and that the Diocese was no longer affiliated with TEC.

    BTW, all the documents and a timeline are on the diocesan site which I posted. All members of the diocese were emailed today with the article posted on the diocesan site.
     
  8. mark1

    mark1 Active Member

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    The short answer is "yes" since the Presiding Bishop understood that expelling the Bishop would automatically result in the diocese leaving TEC, per previous diocesan resolutions.

     
  9. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Wow, big news. While I greatly sympathize with those of our brothers and sisters still in TEC, my gut reaction is: thank God we are out of the wilderness. And God has so shepherded the SC diocese that the TEC leadership cannot abuse and molest her churches one bit. Not even in the slightest!

    Considering how viciously, and totally contrary to Christianity, the TEC have been raging and attacking anyone who didn't toe the line of their liberal-secularist theology, that one of the brightest and most orthodox TEC dioceses was left unassailable is nothing short of miraculous!

    I know our friends here on the forum contain TEC members, but coming from an ACNA angle myself, and knowing that ACNA has a completely valid apostolic leadership, and the support of the majority of the Anglican Communion, I pray the SC diocese finds herself sheltered in arms of the valid Anglican Church, and continues, from this step forward, in line with orthodoxy and true Christianity.
     
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  10. Robert

    Robert Active Member

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    Why do I feel like this is going to end up in endless litigation?
     
  11. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    They can't. The SC supreme court has ruled that parish churches are untouchable by the national Church governments, meaning that the TEC don't own those properties and can't do anything to get them back.
     
  12. Robert

    Robert Active Member

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    Is the State Supreme Court the last word? Or is the US Supreme Court going to step in? After all wasn't the US SUpreme Court that asked hierarchial churches to create things like the Dennis Canon?
     
  13. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    I'm not an expert on this by any means, but from what I understand the Dennis Canon is totally unworthy as a canon. Lawyers argue that if it ever went to the Supreme Court, it would be stricken down. Not sure how that ties into your statement that the Supreme Court was behind its creation.

    After the precedent was set by the SC supreme court, in favor of parish-ownership, several legal developments and precedents (I forget the specifics) have strongly dissuaded the TEC leadership from trying to bring this to the higher court. So they abandoned the case, and the precedent became cemented in SC law.
     
  14. mark1

    mark1 Active Member

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    Where do you all stand on the stated issues? Our bishop did indeed sign away church property. Our bishop did indeed allow the changing of our constitution to put the authority of the diocese higher than that of the national church and the PB. THis is an issues of TEC canon law.

    We have focused on the bishop's failure to support the PB on theological and social issues.

    Would such actions be acceptable in an African province. Would the theological opposition be tolerated? Consider if a bishop in an African province started consecrating homosexual priests and giving away church property?

    It seems as if the real issue is that we agree with the bishop on theological issues.
     
  15. mark1

    mark1 Active Member

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    Bishop Lawrence will speak to our congregation on Wednesday night.

    I am most interested to hear whether the individual parishes will individually vote on whether to stay in TEC or leave. After all, from the perspective of the Supreme Court of South Carolina, the Diocese has no more right than the national church to take or appropriate property.
     
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  16. mark1

    mark1 Active Member

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    The diocese has voted to leave TEC. The parishes have not voted.

    NATIONAL LAWSUITS
    The national church can sue Bishop Lawrence personally for not representing the interests of the national church, a charge that he has already been convicted of by the national church. Bishop Lawrence has effected the removal of many from TEC, while having pledged allegiance to TEC. The financial and other consequences could certainly be the subject of litigation.

    To put it another way, it will be and has been asserted that Bishop should have ruled some of motions at the diocesan convention to be out of order. He should not have facilitated the transfer of ownership of property, and he should not have been complicit is putting the authority of the local bishop higher than that of the national church.

    It is the behavior of the bishop and the consequences that could be at issue.

    In the past the US Supreme Court has not chosen to overrule the decisions of national churches.

    So, yes, national law suits are still possible. Of course, no lawsuits to take away churches from the local parishes and turn them over to the national church can succeed at the sate level; that is all that has been decided by the secular courts.

    LOCAL LAWSUITS
    What will happen when members of churches are basically disaffiliated from TEC by action of the bishop. What is their redress? We will see whether individual parishes will vote. We will see what accommodations are made to those who disagree with the vote. We will see whether there is a realignment of parishes with some moving and some staying.

    I think that it is very likely that there will be lawsuits.

    Consider what happens if TEC members in the diocese call their own convention, with support of the national church and with the support of the Bishop of Upper Carolina. Church members would still arguably be part of TEC. Local churches could split into two churches, as has happened more than once in the past. But, make no mistake, the process will not be pretty.

    BOTTOM LINE
    The die was cast when in 2011, the Diocese voted that the authority of the diocese was supreme, higher than that of the national church. The die was cast when the bishop supported this resolution and those transferring property to the local churches. That the Supreme Court of South Carolina supported the local churches is admirable. However, that did not affect the responsibilities of the bishop under canon law and the disciplines of the TEC which he supported under oath.











     
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  17. Stalwart

    Stalwart Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Wow.
     
  18. mark1

    mark1 Active Member

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    "The Episcopal Church Is Alive and Well In South Carolina" reads the ad in today's newspaper from two parishes that are staying in TEC. I'm sure that there are others throughout the diocese, and will be many as time progresses. Given the bishop's stance on church ownership, the parishes are free to follow any of the six Anglican bishops who claim jurisdiction (are there still that many?). The Global South recognizes two of those bishops as having jurisdiction, Bishop Lawrence and the ACNA Bishop of the Carolinas.

    As the ad says, we "pray for Bishop Lawrence, leaders in the diocese, Episcopalians in the pews of parishes in the diocese AND for Bishop Jefferts Shori and the leaders of the Episcopal Church".

    To me the next step for TEC is to appoint an interim bishop as spiritual leader to those parishes that stay. I would think the current Bishop of Upper Carolina might be able to take that additional role. He is certainly loyal to TEC and has a solid understanding of the situation. In any case, the previously scheduled TEC convention is scheduled for March 8-9.
     
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  19. Toma

    Toma Well-Known Member Anglican

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    Praying for SC, chiefly that they stop calling Mrs. Jefferts-Schori a bishop. Secondarily, that they will find a home in the Southern Cone or Africa. Let the brotherhood increase, and error decrease.
     
  20. mark1

    mark1 Active Member

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    Curiously, I understand a bishop and parishes coming under the authority of Rwanda or Southern Cone. I don't support this active attack on the Communion, but I do understand the approach within Anglicanism. I suspect that these options are less viable with GAFCON spawning ACNA and the southern primates recognizing ACNA as a province. Also, Rwanda has withdrawn from its missionary efforts (assigning its bishops to ACNA), after the schism schismed again.

    I see the choice as between TEC, ACNA or a splinter denominational group. One cannot ignore the recognition of ACNA by half the world's Anglicans. TEC and ACNA could reconcile after there is a new ABC and a new PB, but it seems unlikely anytime soon. Folks can put aside issues like OSAS, justification, predestination and filioque and many others, as we see is the many agreements between churches and denominations. Gender issues are much more difficult. In the end, gender issues are emotional and matter much more to folks that theology or liturgy, and certainly more than following the Social Creed of Jesus.